H-1B Denials Spiking at Contractor, Services Firms

Denial rates for H-1B petitions have skyrocketed to 24 percent through the third quarter of fiscal year 2019, according to a new analysis by the National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) of U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) data. In other words, it seems the Trump administration is cracking down hard on companies petitioning for H-1B visas. But which companies are getting hammered the hardest?

“In the first three quarters of FY 2019, USCIS adjudicators denied 24 percent of H-1B petitions for ‘initial’ employment and 12 percent of H-1B petitions for ‘continuing’ employment,” read the NFAP report (PDF). “The 12 percent denial rate for continuing employment is also historically high—4 times higher than the denial rate of only 3 percent for H-1B petitions for continuing employment as recently as FY 2015.” (For those curious, ‘initial employment’ means H-1B petitions for new employment, whereas ‘continuing employment’ is typically an extension for an existing employee.)

As you might suspect, NFAP suggests that these heightened denial rates are directly connected to USCIS enforcing a tighter legal standard when it comes to these H-1B petitions. “USCIS has systematically rewritten the rules on H-1B visas, without following the law, and destroyed any sense of predictability in the system,” Jonathan Wasden, an attorney who files lawsuits against USCIS on behalf of employers, told the organization.

USCIS fired off additional Requests for Evidence (RFE) in 60 percent of cases in the first quarter of fiscal year 2019, a number that dipped to 40 percent in subsequent quarters—but is nonetheless significantly higher than the 20 percent “historical rate” for RFEs. Check out this chart for a breakdown of which companies are seeing their petitions for initial employment denied:

One thing is really clear: consulting and business-services firms are taking some hard hits under the new paradigm. “At least 12 companies that provide professional or IT services to other U.S. companies, including Accenture, Capgemini and others, had denial rates over 30 percent through the first three quarters of FY 2019,” the report added. “Most of these companies had denial rates between 2 percent and 7 percent as recently as FY 2015.”

In a statement to Mother Jones, a USCIS spokesman framed the agency’s reforms as “designed to protect U.S. workers, cut down on frivolous petitions, strengthen the transparency of employment-based visa programs, and improve the integrity of the immigration petition process.”

As the Trump Administration tightens its restrictions around the H-1B visa, many companies are reacting to the restrictions by outsourcing their work to offices in other countries. At least, that’s the theory of Britta Glennon, a professor at the Wharton School of Business, who wrote in a recent paper:

“Firms were more likely to open new foreign affiliates abroad in response [to H-1B restrictions], and employment increased at existing foreign affiliates. The effect is strongest among R&D-intensive firms in industries where services could more easily be offshored. The effect was somewhat geographically concentrated: foreign affiliate employment increased both in countries like India and China with large quantities of high-skilled human capital and in countries like Canada with more relaxed high-skilled immigration policies and closer geographic proximity.”

Indeed, reports earlier this year suggested that firms were looking to open Canadian offices rather than deal with unpredictability related to the U.S. government’s H-1B policies. Meanwhile, the U.S. government continues to tighten those policies: For example, USCIS recently began asking companies about the type of work that H-1B visa recipients will be doing, such as vendor agreements, subcontractors, and lists of projects. Based on the trends in data, it seems obvious that this higher rate of denials will continue through at least the end of the Trump administration—bringing serious pain to some companies.

85 Responses to “H-1B Denials Spiking at Contractor, Services Firms”

    • The real problem is not the foreigners coming to USA to work, in general. The real problem is that the H1-B visa is being used to bring middle grade specialists from India. There are plenty of such specialists in USA, from local schools. These indians just undermine the local labor. Microsoft, Apple, Google, will interview someone 12 rounds, the people they hire are really gifted. These companies are highly selective in their process, and at the end frequently they cannot hire there highly gifted canditates, cause the outsourcing companies have eaten up the H1-B quoat. How outsourcing companies manage to do it. Well they, just would submit 4 applications for H1-B for every spot they have, if they know that they have 30% chance for an application to be approved. So they get at the end the one candidate per position they have, while depriving local workers to get this middle grade jobs, and depriving USA to get the real talent in the super competetitive positions like Microsoft.

      • That is just not true. When a H1B is rejected there are not that many suitable American workers to take up the job. At the end of the day the outsourcing companies move the jobs back to India or to friendlier countries like Canada. These jobs are not coming back!!!

          • Actually, yes – that is often the case! In several regions India has an enormous potential of extremely well educated experts, especially in the IT industry. These specialists are highly motivated, and have very good work ethics, something that can’t be said about every college kid here in the States. The current tight job market makes companies feel the pain of denies visas even more. Result is that more companies move some part of their operations for highly skilled employees abroad, so college kids here start to have more problems finding the good jobs.

  1. Leyton Newham

    The reason why these companies got away with it for a very long time was because Obama’s administration was very inept about the abuse of these visas that was going on. His administration was never concerned that there were Americans who were hurting as a result of these abuses. I hope this crackdown continues to protect American jobs. The denial rate needs to be higher than these. Majority of these applicants have no experience they basically learn on the job which many Americans can do anyway.

    • Haha. What a joke. Did u see the background check forms? Anyway ones dumbness is another’s profit I guess. The skills of the engineers is such a way that they can get job anywhere in the world hence Canada or India. Just think about why Canada welcomes highly skilled people at the same time? Fyi- their process is even stricter than that of u.s.a but it’s just that it’s clear on the rules , not labelling people just because they are from developing countries.

      • Frank Schmidt

        The joke is your country. Try getting a job in India for what you will get paid here in America.

        Your skills are not what I have the issue with……..it is your shitty third-world attitude.

    • How illiterate, ignorant and arrogant are you. People like you are not educated enough and don’t want to get into any competition. If this continues the great American economy will soon be a history.

    • Why don’t you guys stop h1b program fuckers, why to blame these people, American immigration system is full of fraud, collecting fees and denay applicants, this is illegal American immigration.

    • There was massive abuse of visas where idiots have been passed of as experts and sent. I run a startup, was involved with many startups and we used to recruit the finest guys around the world.. We just focussed on merit and we had two or three rejections in 10 years… Good Top class Americans were let go and replaced with guys who cannot write Hello world… More reforms needed in Visa to make sure useless fellows do not enter US…

    • BostonOutsourced

      These companies will simply now provide their services from their facilities in India. And their workers their are being paid 1/3 of US wages there and no US taxes are being paid. No win.

    • Johnny DooGood

      These policies have been abused well before Obama’s Admin. Trump has been offering Chinese business men permanent visa and citizenship if they invested $500,000 in his business. Regardless of which admin enabled the abuse, it still affect the American workers. Because of these policies government officials and large corporations have been lining their pockets with money, while taking money away from American with workers.

    • I agree. I would call and email the White House to complain and point out the issues with the H1b visa program – and at every opportunity Obama was trying to increase limits and make it easier for them.

  2. Russ Arnett

    It was obvious to me when applying for a project management job at Molina Healthcare that an abuse of the H-1B process was right in my face. The vast majority of IT workers were all H-1B workers from a shady company called “Infinite” – no interest in having a local American hired for this position

  3. U.S. graduates are wondering why they cant find jobs after college. It’s because they were displaced by H1B workers before they even had a chance to get out there.

    Hopefully they will abolish the H1B, EB as well as the OPT program.

  4. Genuine Feedback

    Due to resource crunch, client I am working for in US sent lots of jobs to offshore mainly in India and lots of consultants working in US lost job. If H-1b worker gets visa then he / she can work in US. Pay tax in US. support US team and work with onsite clients to help them completing their complex project and with the product company created / services they gain from this skilled H-1b workers, US companies are competing truly with UK/Europe/Canada/ Asian and Australian market. But few Blind dumb people dont see this benefits. This high skilled doctors and engineers earning high end degree and experience from India/China and other countries. Directly flying here and start helping US in their advanced projects. This way US not putting dime to train this resources or without putting cost overhead on education they are getting free skilled flow in this country. This is truly big loss to US tech firms / Hospitals / Pharma industry to loose this candidates…. downside growth we can see…

    • Due to resource crunch, client I am working for in US sent lots of jobs to offshore mainly in India and lots of consultants working in US lost job.

      Interesting, since I have a consulting contract due to the very poor work of off-shore employees.

      • Genuine Feedback

        No Expert from US and my whole family is full of Doctors and Engineers and we are seeing how US is getting tremendous benefits.

        Few dumb unskilled dont get job due to they need to enjoy life in BAR then you can keep crying about JOB. There are handful of you created this kind of noise. But you main issue is OUTSOURCING. stop it first which is draining jobs out side of USA. If this will happen then every uneducated will also get some work to do…. But Government gets lots of TAX from big companies so your Government will not tell companies to stop OUTSOURCING. UNDERSTAND your problem of not having job when you are not having enough good working skills. If you kick engineer or Doctor out from system doesn’t mean 10th grade pass can replace him!! First stop outsourcing and all companies for better profit and low cost going out to developing countries for cheaper rate resources. UNDERSTAND your main problem in system is JOB outsourcing. Not those who are coming here and help your system.

        • Please stop fighting and blaming each other. This coin has both sides to it. We should accept that there are extremely talented people working on H1-B, trying to add some value, while on the other hand there are bunches of crappy resources who just go for multiple long breaks during the day but showcasing as if they are working for longer hours to build the company and the country. I lived in USA for about 4 years and I love the country and adore it’s people. Even though I am not perfect, I was loved and respected by many non Indian Americans. I am a member or American Red Cross, Compassion International playing my part to help the under privileged. Personally, I learnt many things while I was there.

          I did my masters at a very good university in India, in fact the one of the top 10 technological Universities in India and myriads of its alumni get admission in Harward and Standford for higher studies every year. I have more than 10 years of experience and worked for various clients, in a plethora of technologies and domains. I am also a victim of this H1-B scrutiny but I never felt wrong about it. I always feel if I am worthy enough, I will be successful wherever I am. Success for me doesn’t mean making millions and I am confident that I will come back to US if I am really suitable and deserve to be there. Finally, I am happy to see some action on this front as I was also worried that the US is getting screwed up due to the immigration abuse.

          But I feel the way this is implemented is completely wrong. How can the USCIS analyse the skills of a person by going through client letters and statement of work? My visa renewal was denied because my employer(company) and attorney didn’t provide proper documents due to their negligence and laziness. I was getting many interview calls and by looking at my previous experience and certifications, many companies (including startup’s) were willing to offer me job just but couldn’t proceed further as I needed H1 transfer. I am still working for the same client making good money in terms of INR, paying taxes to the Indian government. Now tell me who benefited from this? Indian government isn’t it? I also created a few positions here. If you think companies make money by paying less for H1-B in US, it may be right or wrong. But, for sure they make a hell a lot of money if they can increase offshore positions. With good experience, knowledge, talent and education, I am working from a place that I don’t like whereas the people who are not even half of my experience and skill are working in US (sorry for being judgemental but that’s the fact). They are also paid higher due to the resource crunch in the current conditions.

          How can this system be improved (High skill immigration system):

          1. Make English mandatory by enforcing IELTS, TOEFL or any other English tests. Many so called high skilled people don’t understand basic English and I wonder how they understand the requirements. I have many personal experiences where I had to spoon feed everything to other resources just as a fellow human to save them from the job loss.

          2. Enforce attitude test. Most of the immigrants just migrate for earning dollars. They dot have respect for your culture. Make sure the questions are practical and difficult to deal with. Otherwise they will just read and prepare well to answer them.

          3. Try to assess their knowledge in the skills they mention. This should also be a practical test and not theoretical. This will help to filter out real skill.

          4. Assess the quality of the Institutions they studied and the companies they worked for and assign some points based on that.

          5. Make the system a point based like Canada or Australia unlike checking the junk employer documents provided.

          6. Frequently(yearly) assess the skills of immigrants and check the work done by them while they are working in US on the high skill visa.

          These may not completely resolve the problem but it may filter junk. This also incurs lot of cost, but without that it is hard to achieve this.

          • Very good response. This would remove a lot of the abuse of the system. I have seen the good of H1B and the bad. Sorry to say over 50% of the people on H1B do not fit the requirement of highly skilled unavailable in the US. The other 30% or so are amazing.

        • “Doctors” and “engineers”? I know that India has some of the best universities NOW, but that being said….
          how do we know if someone from india, Russia, etc. really went to school? No offense, I’m just being real. There is A LOT of corruption in A LOT of countries, in the USA as well, but it’s harder to get away with…
          People can come here with a fake name, fake AGE, fake work history, fake education, etc. for the right price, like they pay someone for the docs in their native country. It’s next to impossible to get a fake passport, birth certificate, diploma, etc in the USA.
          I would like to go to another county and be 5 or 10 years younger, with a masters degree or do firsts too.

      • Genuine B.S.,

        Just the fact that you are on a job board knocking the Americans that created the US economy and laws that you are so desperately trying to be a part of is a huge joke and slap in the face. It’s because your home county is UNABLE to fix its own issues that you are commenting and involved at all. As for the “engineer” you refer to, I have never seen as much ineptitude as I have seen from these outsourcing companies. You’ve all been found out to be the frauds you are. As for BARS and enjoying our lives, welcome to the Western tradition. We like to enjoy our lives in which ever way WE choose. We don’t have a a ridiculous cast system that we allow to set judgements on people and how they spend their free time. FINALLY, your quote “UNDERSTAND your main problem in system is JOB outsourcing. Not those who are coming here and help your system.” You’re not fooling anyone. You’re are coming here for YOU. Not to help us. WE are not stupid.

    • This type of written communication – with lots of spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors is one of the reasons these visas are being denied. No college-educated person writes like you have written. The issue is ‘quality’ of the applicants. You are an example.

      • telling to pumpkins

        English writing / report writing subject was not taken during college degree. It was science degree. Now you understood the mentioned point thats enough. Top notch companies are founded by foreigners including lots of inventions made in this country by foreigners. Whatever system you may be writing to review and publish your view also coded by foreigners mostly. So respect and work hard to grow your skills and do your work. This foreigners are blessed enough to run their life anywhere where skills are appreciated and they are smart enough to get success in their life. Just work towards right direction and grow in place of negative comments.

      • Genuine Feedback

        Our patients understand what we say in ENGLISH and they are feeling cured happily and love to get doctors in remote area where healthcare is hard. If they reject visa then are you able to take my job!…as you are generalizing and crying about all JOB positions. Go to politics and show how your mind is working and hope people will listen you what you say. People want peaceful / progressive life for themselves and for their country. Also understand Indian doctors have earned their names by their skills and see the story of foreigner helping your country.

        https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41587429

    • Leyton Newham

      That’s what you people in India think, you think you are doing us a favor, you think you are helping us build our company. You think all Americans are like these fraudulent politicians and CEOs who buy into that thought. Hell no, you are NOT doing us any favors, you are just bringing down our ingenuity and our technology with your shoddy work by replacing Americans who would have brought forth new ideas and ingenuity but rather found themselves working as waiters because of you guys.
      In any case, if you think you are that good, why don’t you stay and build your third world country. There are over 1 billion dire hard poor people over there that needs development and we don’t want your racist caste system in United States either.

      • Genuine Feedback

        Dont worry you dont need cast system for discrimination. there are already lots of other form of gifted issues are there. Lots of people come here because their family came here and they love to join their family and friends here. Few are lucky to come here by showing their efforts to help system and help their family too. Everyone is foreigner here. few came here by snatching from mainland people, few came here in hope for good future, few came here to live with their friends and family.

  5. Thats great news for Americans:) Especially those who are minorities, lower/middle class, new college grads, older workers, women (working mom’s). I thinks it Great that they are denying h1bs. Its too easy for companies to take advantage of these people. It makes it easier for companies to screw over American workers. I pray that they get rid of the h1b visa program. We should not be bringing in people who don’t share american values for betterment of the United States.

    • Agreed! And you can thank USCIS for doing their jobs! Congress is made up of a bunch of yahoo’s and because of that Cuccinelli and staff are picking up the ball and fixing this B.S. H1B issue. I applaud them. I also applaud all of the FEDERAL judges who have finally gotten with the program and have seen this farce for what it is. They are booting them out and throwing their CEO’s in jail now. It’s about time.

  6. It’s all well and good that our government is cracking down but what good is it if then these companies offshore rather than hire an American? The companies that offshore should have to pay a financial penalty for doing it. And, if the age-old argument that Americans aren’t as good as these workers then these companies should have to pay into a pool that is used for training Americans. I work for a company with a number of offshore facilities in India and the code is filled with bugs even though the code changes are tested by QA. It’s an embarrassment to have so many bugs presented to our clients.

    • Tightening H1b is step 2. Step 1 was lowering the corporate tax rate, which brought many companies back to the US after being abroad. There will still be companies that value cheap labor over American workers and lower domestic tax rates, but it’s a net win for the US economy, and we’re seeing it reflected in GDP growth and job availability.

  7. I used to work for cognizant, and I know people that work there now. We all can agree the H-1B visas are being abused, and I can get behind denials in new employment. But its continuing employment that sucks, if you’re a company that had an employee doing good work, and now that employee has to be deported because his renewal was denied, that throws a wrench into business operations.

    • …. had an employee doing good work, and now that employee has to be deported because his renewal was denied, that throws a wrench into business operations.

      The system is set up to fill specialty positions that may otherwise be difficult to hire for. Think PhD in chemistry or engineering. The US has many tech people who do ‘good work’. Good work was never the standard, but it somehow morphed in to it.
      When the ‘good worker’ gets deported there are more than a few US citizens that can step in to do the work and do it well.

    • It is the companys’ responsibility to train US nationals to do that work – the H1b is NOT meant to be a permanent position. If the manager didn’t manage the situation properly that is no reason for the immigration system to be taking up the slack.

      • Go Milly! Yes, these are not PERM Positions. But for some reasons these companies have been permitted to treat them as if they are perm. They come in at 40% lower and they can be gotten rid of at any time without severance or a care in the world. It’s all for the stock market to go up and up. The only chance the average American has of recouping these financial losses is to invest in the markets and benefit from the abuse of these labor laws and H1B’s as well. It’s sick.

  8. Stuart522

    oh poor companies – who make all their monies in America actually have to hire a couple more American workers…boo hoo! waaah! This year has SUCKED for employment and Payrates in my area, and 90% of recruiters are Indian offering 1/2 normal pay – I hang up on them. just started to pick up, like normal companies wait until right before Thanksgiving to hire people, i currently have a gig, and have 4 more offers

  9. I have been recently laid off at my former company. They offshored the jobs and put hundreds of Americans out of work, qualified experienced people that managers did not want to lose. So they get tax breaks and pay little taxes, feed off the US economy and take jobs away from citizens, giving them to other countries. This should be a crime and no company should be allowed to do business in this country and get away with this. People, support labor and use your power of the vote, make sure that who you vote for will work for you, your communities, our country, not just line their pockets. They have been stealing productivity and destroying the American worker for decades. Take Action!

  10. Brian A Neiman

    Foreign workers from 3rd world countries undermine the US Citizen workers by driving down pay rates. USA has to compete at home now and on a global basis as well and the 1%ers are who benefits compliments of our elected awfulcials.

  11. “USCIS has systematically rewritten the rules on H-1B visas, without following the law,…”
    Following the law? You have the nerve to say that USCIS isn’t following the law, Jonathan Wasden? Up to this point, the law hasn’t been followed, now it is and you don’t like it.

    • You’re misinformed Chuck. USCIS is well within their jurisdiction to change requirements of Visa applicants. They are permitted to change $ salary cap and ask for proof of education and proof that the job CAN’T be filled by an American. This means BY LAW, they can even scan the Unemployment offices for US Citizens without jobs and ask a company why they were not chosen over an H1B Visa holder and then DENY the request of that company to import the worker. They have a lot more latitude then most people think, and they have not exercised it. But, it’s coming soon.

  12. DeveloperManager

    Good to see progress on this front. For years I’ve seen first hand the abuse of this well-intentioned program (original intent was to bring highly skilled workers to the US, not people with shady basic degrees and zero experience). The claims that all of the onshore roles recovered by running off the H1-b workers will just result in roles moving offshore instead are simply incorrect. Many roles require onshore presence and the workaround to paying market rates has been to import H1B. Now they will be forced to pay prevailing wage in the onshore markets. More opportunity will drive even more young people to tech, a win-win for all.

  13. There are plenty of folks from the U.S. that are competent, capable, proficient (add any other adjective you wish) who would be more than happy to receive these contracts. I have seen what is expressed here as well, there certainly appears to be an imbalance.

  14. Dickson Imadiyi

    This entitlement mentality is one of the single reason alot of pple re poor.my brothers and sisters understand one thing that the world has become a global village.rise up to the occasion and be competitive and more relevant to employers than the off-shore guys in terms of value adding.

    • Mike Lee is trying to push this through – he must be getting a LOT of donations to his re-election campaign. What he is asking for is backwards. Put Per-country caps on the H1b visa program and the “problem” of too many Indian and Chinese green card applications goes away. As it is, after people from North and South America, the total number of green cards for Indian and Chinese applicants is second. (Look it up Green Card statistics for 2017 are the most current available). India and China already get more than most other countries – the S386 is meant to just give them all available for EB visas – this is so wrong.

  15. I have no sympathy on the whites. They did this to themselves. They replaced majority of whites who were at manager or above levels with Indians to bring in other Indians. Their reason was lower pay. Now that the top is majority Indians, they are using equality and pay parity as a reason to pay all H1Bs equal amount to a local. So, what benefits did you get out of it long term? You screw up locals, and American social system. The government is on the hook so are the taxpayer who got laid off.

    • You’re misinformed Chuck. USCIS is well within their jurisdiction to change requirements of Visa applicants. They are permitted to change $ salary cap and ask for proof of education and proof that the job CAN’T be filled by an American. This means BY LAW, they can even scan the Unemployment offices for US Citizens without jobs and ask a company why they were not chosen over an H1B Visa holder and then DENY the request of that company to import the worker. They have a lot more latitude then most people think, and they have not exercised it. But, it’s coming soon.

  16. Interesting to see all these comments here. I get to see the way people think that are litterally screwing me up with their bigotry.

    I’m a resident alien. I’ve been here for 1 year and will be here for at lest the next 2 years. I did not choose to come here. It’s just that my wife is here as a foreign correspondent. My dependant visa gives me right to live here with her but not to work.

    Now, I am a skilled computer engineer with 8 years of experience. When I put my profile on linked in or Dice, I litteraly get called every day by recruiters quite enthusisatic about hiring me… Until they know I would need a H-1B visa sponsorship for that. Just this thing about having to wait until April to play heads or tails, makes them change their mind.

    I don’t think most of you guys understand how humiliating this lottery feels : from where I stand, it is totally obvious that there is a shortage of people with my qualification and that employing me would benefit your country. But no, for that I have to wait for April, get through a random process that may decide that I’ll just have to wait for one more year.

    You guys don’t realize how making things hard for us is the damn only reason that may ever make me grudgingly accept a job with lower wage than I’m worth or making me less picky than I would be on working conditions. Of course employers are exploiting that : putting people in a fragile, precarious situation to negotiate is just the best thing to make them accept shitty contracts.

    Actually I also would gladly just work as a freelance remotely for clients back in my home country and don’t mess up at all with your goddamn economy that I don’t care of. Guess what ? You don’t allow me that either. I guess for fear of outsourcing or shit.

    So basically, I’m just here, doing our laundry, cooking and cleaning dishes, waiting to see if I can get so lucky that a random process will finally allow me to put into better use my skills.

    I am not here to take advantage of good working conditions or anything. Actually, they are quite worse than in my own country with your shitty health care and pension system. I’m just here because I love my wife and I don’t want to live far from her, just as I would have also followed her in any other country in the world.

    Well, you can be sure that next time, I’ll strongly object that she be named in a position in such a biggot, decadent country as yours. Just the way lots of people here describe “third world” country is quite eloquent.

    • Alien,

      This issue you see has been brewing since the end of the dot.com era when American citizens were fired and foreign nationals kept their jobs because they were making a fraction of what Americans were making. American Engineers were on unemployment and had to move home from SFO and other cities. It has never improved. We have all become temporary workers because of this invasion of greed and the loophole of H1B Visa’s. As for your situation, tough poo poo. We are in it to win it in our own country at the moment. If you happen to be caught in the middle and can’t deal, pack up your spouse and go home.

      This does not make us bigot’s. It makes us patriots that want to keep our jobs and raise our families in our OWN COUNTRY! Get it?

    • Oh and Alien, one more thing…how long does one have to suffer before they become “intolerant” of abuse? I’m curious because that is the defining characteristic of a bigot. I would argue that we are just pissed off.

    • Leyton Newham

      You don’t have to scream that loud. We are a nation of laws. If you think you are that good, you can take your wife back to your country and get yourself a good job.
      Make no mistake, nobody brought you here, you brought yourself into this mess.
      This country have sent man on the moon without anybody’s help, and can still do unthinkable things, we have the manpower and the resource to take care of ourselves. We don’t need your service sir, we have enough people already.

  17. Alan Grimes

    Thank goodness! If the denial rate reaches 100%, there might be a slim chance that even I, at the age of 42 with a bachelor’s degree, will secure a stable income so that I can start trying to court women, so that I might actually get laid for the first time! Praise be to Trump! Praise be to Trump!

  18. Les Ames

    Been offshored 3 times in the last 10 years. Despite the so called thriving economy it happened again this year. The H1b is part of the problem, but you really don’t see the big picture till you’ve had to remotely train a your own replacement who lives in a 3rd world armpit and can’t even work from command line. After 25 years in IT, I’m now having a hard time finding a data center operator position. Far as I can see, eventually, we’re all gonna get screwed.

  19. All of the points made on this thread contain elements of truth and logic. Though, no one can make a single absolute case of certainty as to what works, what does not work, what is fair and where to lay any blame for any wrong doing (in the globalization of labor).

    Regardless of the reason, American workers (IT and otherwise) continue to see their standard of living shrink due to less jobs and lower pay checks. While workers in other countries gain those same jobs and see their standard of living increase (capitalistic globalization).

    Those are facts. Again, fill in whatever reasoning there is for this, as you all seem to have strong opinions.

    I simply ask this: Will those countries allow the flow of jobs back to the USA (us Americans) once we are reduced to the status of lower cost worker (with lowered standard of living)?

    I cannot imagine that China, India, Vietnam, Brazil, Poland, etc, after decades of massive poverty, will allow the level of pure capitalism that we in the USA allow and let their businesses hire, in massive amounts workers from other countries (like when Americans become the lower cost worker).

    I believe in free markets and so I flinch from protectionism. But can we rely on these other countries to reciprocate when the time comes that American workers are the better labor value? I don’t hate these other people, I just can’t imagine that they won’t protect their jobs and their newly gained higher standard of living. That would be a forlorn hope that I don’t wish to hand down to my children or live through myself.

  20. Ian Graeme

    One question which has never been asked of any born American: Did you ever ask for anyone to immigrate to the US? You would be very hard pressed to find any born American who did.

    Which should illustrate the point perfectly: No one is asking those who must live with the all-too-often culturally abrasive ways of the imports if they want to. Particularly when said imports demonstrate no intention of assimilation and every intention of trying to turn their locale into a miniature version of the country they came from, with disastrous results for the natives. The cultural issue is as important as the economic one.

  21. And one more thing. Our capitalism allows:
    Businesses to out source what were American jobs to other countries.
    Businesses to bring in non American workers through the H1B visa process.
    Businesses to close factories here and open them in countries with lower paid labor pools.
    Businesses to hire illegals. Though not allowed, they hire them anyway and claim they did not know (with a wink and a nod).

    All this is done in the name of capitalism. Lower paid labor means more profits, but these type of profits only go to the top equity owners. Obviously if you are sending good paying jobs out of a country, you can’t trickle that wealth to its workers.

    As I asked in my previous post, do you trust that these other countries, receiving what are for them, improved wages and therefore improved standards of living will reciprocate when we Americans (or any other country) are the value added lower cost labor? Will they allow this purest form capitalism, the way America does?

    No. I don’t think they will. They will protect their improved standard of living and its a forlorn hope to think otherwise. I don’t think of them as evil capitalists, its just pragmatic to “not send too much wealth out of your own country”.

    We should take some control of this. Allow some, but not allow a profiteering free for all at the expense of most of this countries people. These jobs and wages won’t come back! Common sense, please!

  22. So many hatters in this beautiful part of the world. You guys forget this is land of immigrants and it will continue forever. If you are a real American compare yourself with Gates and Jobs, try to create more jobs whether for Citizens or foreigners. Don’t you Guys look out for The word H1B and spray your hateful thoughts against Indians. Be Honest and treat everyone equally to be a true Citizen.

    • Alexa, I agree with the basic sentiment of your statement. But it puts all the onus on the behavior of Americans. I am 60 and have 40 years in IT. After working with many Indians here in the USA and by correspondence to India, I find that I like most Indians and I see them mostly as living up to the finer ideals of Americanism. They seem very American to me.

      My problem is that I worry for my (our) children, family and country. You can’t blame it all on Americans not trying hard enough or on automation, etc, etc. No one lets people into their country like we do. No one lets jobs go abroad like we do.

      So please stop for second and answer these next questions honestly, to yourself. Referring to your comments on this thread, I ask: Will the Indian versions of Jobs and Gates create jobs for Americans? If yes, will Indian allow this? Can you imagine India, China and other emerging economies allowing their jobs and incomes to go to other countries (outsourcing) or allow people from other countries to come in and take these jobs from them? To the degree that we in the USA allow?

      If you say “yes” they will allow jobs to flow in and out of their countries, you ask me to believe too much. It would strain credulity.

      I know that there is much lacking in American behavior towards Indians. Please consider human nature. Both American and Indian. I want my children to prosper. And, if in this country, I want them first in line. I’ll bet folks in other countries (India too) feel the same way.

      • Jenuine feedback

        I am sure you are Indian :). Because my Indian family also thinking same for their kids. You came here because you wanted to get prosperous. But you left India thinking you can’t get prosperous. So you are wrong. Indian’s are doing awesome Jobs there and billions of people country is thriving too. You are worrying about your children because you were worried about you same way. Don’t try to create hate among all due to your insecurity. Looks global vision / gain and win global market. Android / Windows / iOS / PCs are sold all over world which is American. Amazon is top in India and it is American so dont try to throw your insecurity on all over… Give your kids right education in place of teaching them racism and hate…

        • No hate, racism or insecurity in me or my words. But its seen clearly in your words. You sound just like the American bigots you despise. The hate of people like you in both countries is weak and shameful. Emotions are logic, so I’m done with this thread.

    • Alexa, you’re obviously not going through repetitive layoffs and temp workers taking your job when you’re trying to raise a family. Uninformed utopian dreamers like you are what got us here in the first place.

  23. Steven Bowen

    Whats really spooky is knowing that DNC & RNC and their “news networks (CNN, FOX, MSNBC) have all worked together to bring us to this point. The media is bought and paid for.

    CNN said candidate Andrew Yang was concerned about the fact that automation and robots are taking U.S. jobs. GIVE ME A BREAK !!!!
    AUTOMATION SOFTWARE AND ROBOTIC SYSTEMS DONT NEED
    H1B VISAS !!!!!!!!!!!
    This is just a smoke screen that the globalist cheap-labor lobby is using while they bring in thousands foreign workers in the U.S.

    It was Bill Gates that kicked off a fake talking point a couple years ago when he said that “robots should be taxed for taking jobs”. It was intended to get Americans to to look the other way so that elected officials like Zoe Lofgren of CA can push legislation to increase H1B ,EB worker caps in the U.S. Mike Lee of Utah wants to increase the Greencard allowance to make it even more enticing to the Indian workers.
    Since then, all news networks have seized on this false discussion to make seasoned workers as well as new grads think that this is why they cant find a gainfull position. Afterall, how can you blame a robot. Its just a scam.

    Remember, robots are not taking STEM jobs, Indians are!

    • If I could, I would upvote you 1000 times. I noticed the same thing. A liberal friend, not working in STEM, was sending me messages that the robots are the reason why we cannot find jobs, while all around me were only Indians and a few Chinese, I being the only white person, and no robots anywhere in sight.