H-4 Authorization for H-1B Visa Spouses Heads to Chopping Block

The demise of the H-4 EAD, which allowed the spouses of H-1B visa holders to obtain work, seems imminent.

On Feb. 25, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) issued its proposal to remove “H-4 dependent spouses from the class of aliens eligible for employment authorization,” labeling it “economically significant.”

The proposal digs into the potential impacts of the move on both the agency and the broader labor market: “The cost-savings accruing to forgone future filings by certain H-4 dependent spouses, and labor turnover costs that employers of H-4 workers could incur when their employees’ EADs are terminated.”

Moreover, the agency emphasizes how such a move will play into the Trump Administration’s broader “Buy American and Hire American,” an executive order signed in early 2017: “Some U.S. workers would benefit from this proposed rule by having a better chance at obtaining jobs that some of the population of the H-4 workers currently hold, as the proposed rule would no longer allow H-4 workers to enter the labor market early.”

Although critics of H-1B visas may cheer this latest move, executives who depend on the program are, predictably, not pleased. “Taking away a spouse’s ability to work will make the U.S. a less attractive destination for top-tier talent. The skills gap in the U.S. remains profound, with 60 percent of U.S. employers saying they have job openings that stay vacant for 12 weeks or longer,” Richard Burke, CEO of Envoy Global, which guides clients through the immigration process, wrote in an email to Dice.

Meanwhile, the Associated Press cites new data from USCIS showing that a rising number of H-1B visa applications are being hit with Requests for Evidence (RFEs). Some 38 percent of applications underwent such screening last fiscal year, versus 21 percent in the 2016 fiscal year; in the first quarter of this fiscal year, it hit 60 percent. The applicant approval rate is also falling.

However, USCIS recently resumed premium processing for all H-1B petitions filed before Dec. 21, 2018, suggesting that the agency has dealt with much of its backlog of applications despite the increased RFEs. That move followed the agency re-opening premium processing for fiscal year 2019 (FY-2019) cap-subject petitions, including those eligible for advanced degree exemption.

In addition to the shutdown of H-4 EAD (the timeline for implementation of which remains unclear), it remains to be seen how quickly the Trump administration completely retools the current H-1B lottery system. Under a proposed reordering, H-1B applicant pools will have all applicants (including those with advanced degrees) enter the annual “general pool” of 65,000 visas. After that, remaining applicants with advanced degrees will enter a 20,000-visa “master’s cap” pool. In theory, applicants will have two good shots at actually landing a visa under the new system. But as with everything else in the long saga of this administration and the H-1B system, things are subject to change.

152 Responses to “H-4 Authorization for H-1B Visa Spouses Heads to Chopping Block”

  1. Lacey Sheridan

    This is another step toward eliminating this entire process. Americans can and should fill these positions; we have no need to import workers. Our big tech firms can well afford to pay Americans a fair wage. We welcome immigrants who enter using the legal method in place, but we must put an end to these back door admissions.

    • Manjunath

      when you support family based immigration system, how can you deny work visa for spouses ? note that H4-EAD is only provided to green card waiting immigrants not all immigrants who just have a H1B Visa. Getting a Green Card for high tech immigrants from countries like INDIA runs into 20+ years wait time in current situations, Neither we fix the broken legal immigration system and allow legal immigrants to become permanent residents in a shorter time frame nor provide work authorization for family spouses who are waiting for green card for decades long. Spouses are not allowed to work for multiple decades killing their career aspirations in waiting for green card.It is total injustice and will force legal immigrants to leave USA who are law abiding and honest tax payers adding value to American economy due to family issues created by unfair policies.

        • US Engineer & Hiring Manager

          It’s stupid that the H4 EAD is being so heavily argued.

          The H4 spouses are already using up social resources even without being able to pay their own taxes, because they cannot work but are permanent residents. H4 EAD allows them to actually work and pay income taxes, so that they are contributing to the US financially.

          Right now, for an H4 spouse to actually make money, they have to work remotely for jobs based outside of the US, which means the US is missing out on the money they could be making from that labour.

          If you want to improve the system, allow for H4 EAD but make H-1B visa requirements more strict.

          • Look – unlike the H1b visa, there is NO ESTABLISHED labor need for H4 EAD. These are jobs that could very well be taken by American workers who would be paying taxes also. American workers who need to pay off student loans and get a start in a career.

        • Your Country….did your ancestors immigrate?….you definitely do not sound like native american…… H1-B/H-4 are only helping us not butchering us….the way it is yours, it is my country too….so let’s look at economic value not whose country and begging…..if there were no immigrant workers, we would not have been where we are today….as to date we do not have enough work force to support the need.

        • It’s not European people’s country. Europeans happen to be in majority in this country. You should go back to your motherland i.e. Europe with such nationalistic thoughts.

          • This is our country. We did not immigrate, we conquered this land by war. This has happened throughout human history. Its still happening in Africa and the Middle East.

            Yes, we were the land of immigrants in the past, when this country was empty. Now we are at capacity. We do not need one more immigrant. We have too many now. There are Americans to fill every single job. Any companies saying we need immigrants are just trying to get cheaper labor.

      • Adam Redlum

        I read an article today that said H-1B approvals was around 80% in 2018. Yet 36% of American STEM graduates, US CITIZENS!, don’t get STEM jobs upon graduation. So 100 – 36 = 64% of OUR OWN US CITIZEN STEM GRADS are “approved” for a STEM job. So you actually have better odds getting a US tech job if you are from INDIA! Insane. Absolutely insane.

      • Manjunath, what you are saying is not true. I’m not saying the removal of work permits for H4 holders is right or wrong, but the true is, any H4 holder can gain a work permit, not just those that are already in the path to the green card.

        • Diego you are wrong, not any H4 holder can gain work permit. Please don’t spread false information. And if you’re so sure of that please tell me how they would do it because I’m in that case right now and would love to be able to work but I CANNOT!

      • There are several countries in Middle East , countries like KSA, UAE etc where only the male is issued a work visa and their spouses remain back home , say India, to raise a family . It is specified that the work visa is only for the male worker or a single person male or female . I reckon the H1B visa also has this requirement. The Indians want to exploit the system to their advantage thus violating the visa requirements. It is this same sort of callous disregard for rules and failure to adhere to stipulated requirements why their country is in such a mess, socially, politically and environmentally

        • TheyTookOutJerbs

          What are you talking about? Do you even know how the visa system works in America? What do you have against spouses that want to work? Do you even work in the IT industry? It sounds like you’re talking from an emotional POV, not exactly logical. The Middle East contracts oversee workers for labor not IT. The same rules don’t apply. You reckon a lot but have you actually read? Sounds like you want to close the door behind you.

          Btw how many times have you been to India. Don’t listen to everything you hear on tv. I can say the same thing about ireland or germanland. It’s easy to take credit for what others have built.

          • I just want to state the ME countries do hire immigrants for IT roles. Primarily from India, if they have a degree, they can bring their spouse.

            -Former IT worker in Qatar

      • SR American

        H4 EAD is unconstitutional and illegal. For H1B there is a vetting process and 90 days of advertisement period to ensure American citizen participation. Whereas for H4 work visa nothing. H1B visa itself is a non-immigrant visa and the comments here in the post, where they want their spouse to work, to buy house and have kids, is rediculous. The best way to stop this nonsense is to send an email to your local Congress man or woman asking whether they support the notion to revoke the H4 EAD or not. If they don’t support this notion make sure you vote against them in the coming mid-term elections. Most of these H4 holders are working for corrupt Indian IT companies (like Wipro, Infosys and TCS) who are exploiting American citizen’s jobs and life. Every time I here from these visa beneficiaries how H4 visas and H1B is helping American economy, I have a question why don’t you go back help your own country’s economy. We do not need your charity, maybe you go Africa and help people in need there.

        • EuroTrash

          Sure, it’s easy to blame the foreigners who don’t look like the average American. But have you ever thought about blaming the real culprits? You know? The tech companies! The ones who agree to contract to these consulting companies knowing exactly what they do. You call them corrupt, why? Because the people that work for them don’t look like you? You’re pathetic for showing your bigot views when in reality your fellow Americans are the ones selling you out. Do you even work in IT or are you just another crusader for eurotrash interests.

          • SR American

            You Indians are pathetic and corrupt (example: Indian IT applicant for H-4 EAD with an age of 25 years and resume showing experience of 12 years…what a joke). Go back and make your own country great FOR AT LEAST ONCE! Indian IT H1-B visa should be banned for Indian companies (as Senator Marco Rubio said during Presidential Debates).

          • All of the staffing companies are trash, whether or not they hire an American or a foreigner. It all comes down to risk mitigation strategies of our tech companies, they like to be able to sue/fee the staffing agency when the employee screws up or when labour laws are violated and the employee sues. If they had hired the employee, they wouldn’t be able to do so. Risk mitigation through transference… They offer crap benefits, if any at all, and do not abide by labour laws.

      • Manjunath…why are you having issues with spouses not working…I am front middle East, my wife is happily caring for my kids…she stays at home and takes care of them…I am on h1 and I work, if my wife can do that yours can too..I think you are from India…Everytime I read an article about h4, only you raise the issue…no one from middle East cares ..we also have h1 and h4 ead

      • Jakester

        >>Spouses are not allowed to work for multiple decades killing their career aspirations in waiting for green card.It is total injustice and will force legal immigrants to leave USA who are law abiding and honest tax payers adding value to American economy due to family issues created by unfair policies.

        Your wife’s career aspirations are not our issue.

        • PigSkinCancer

          Our issues? White trash, you don’t represent America and her economic interests. It seems like a lot of you don’t want Indians here because they are, well….Indian. I guess since they don’t look like you, eat like you, talk like you, they are the enemy. You are Eurotrash immigrants that just want to close the door behind you. I rather have taxing paying Indians in America than chicken nugget and ranch eating inbreds. I wonder if you’ll be singing the same tune if europeon cancers came to America.

      • How can you say that it is total injustice to force legal immigrants to leave USA? When you are already legal immigrants that means you are legally in the USA and legally to work depending on your status unless you become out of status. The reality is that there are too many H1B workers out there but the labor is few. You must also realize that Americans and those that are already here with residency status or green card holder need work too. And anyone who legally works here contributes to the American economy by paying their fair share in taxes. The truth is the immigration system is not really broken it is broken for those who comes here and wish it works for them the way they want it be.

    • By no means are these backdoor admissions. Please do read about the H4 EAD, these are spouses who already have approved permanent residency but are on waitlist due to the huge backlog of pending applications for countries like India and China. Instead of penalizing the spouses by not being eligible to work until their applications are cleared (can take 10 to 15 years) they are given the option to be eligible to work which they will eventually be when the applications are cleared from the backlog.
      Also to note is they are by no means given easy jobs, they also go through the same stringent interview process that any other legal resident or citizen is supposed to go through.


        • Adam Redlum

          You are American if…

          Your grandfathers both fought in World War II.

          Your grandparents and parents paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in US taxes

          You paid the Universities who are involved in this education scheme over 60k, subsidizing foreign students unbeknownst to you

          You, yourself, paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in US taxes, only to have YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT hand over 100,000 US tech jobs to Indians through a lottery system like playing bingo with Better Call Saul, while other professions are killing it in this current economy, even though they cannot even do remedial math. I’m saying other professions can’t even multiply or divide. Ridiculous. This entire conversation feels like a twighliht zone, but then you realize this is America, and her economic engine has always been fueled by the exploitation of cheap labor.

          • Visa workers pay federal taxes without the benefits they hold and their education loans aren’t subsidized. Their tuition contributes more to the college than an American.

            I don’t know what grapevine you get your information, but visa holders don’t have any special rights compared to an American.

            It take no effort to be a loser and blame your problems on other people.

    • And define who are Americans? Do immigrated some 200+ years here and not its “their” place to work and not for others who come to USA just like them. Compete on competency and not on your incompetency.

    • Yes, it good this box of leeches is finally being off loaded… Now as a starter 100,000 jobs stolen by the leeches from India will be open for US Citizens… And a lot more shall be made available… GOOD… Cleanup need to be ruthless..

      • SHAH – you seem like a mentally ill person influenced by the hate propaganda to garner votes. That other man from India is perhaps earning 4 times as you do. Not sure where this anger and hate comes from. Is it more of your incapability being converted into hate speech against an ethnic group.

      • I don’t think you understand what the H-1B system does for the US. It’s a supplementary pool of candidates for companies to hire from since the US doesn’t have enough employees to fill the current demand for technical work. There’s a clear and understood lack of skilled workers for many engineering, programming, science, and medical positions, and the H-1B helps to address that.

        The issue is the abuse of the H-1B system by Indian/Asian IT contractors that spam applications for jobs that barely exist, but removing the H4 EAD is not the right step towards fixing that. Instead, the requirements for H-1B and L1 jobs should be reviewed and the requirements increased. This would cut out a large portion of the Indian IT industry that has been abusing the system, but allow for legitimate applications to remain.

        Without the H4 EAD, spouses of employees are unable to work and don’t pay taxes, but are able to take advantage of the US social systems in place as they are permanent residents. If you want to avoid “leeches” in the US, approving the H4 EAD is a step in the right direction.

        • Adam Redlum

          More lies. I have a BSEE from the University of Michigan, I know 5 programming languages, but hit 40 and it’s Logan’s Run while cheaper younger Indians are preferred to save money, be an indentured servant working 50/60/70 hours a week, and the company can use these workers for “hireketing”: hiring to market their products to some 1.3 BILLION people in India who are getting more money while we Americans are being laid off by tech companies by the THOUSANDS. And to Matt and other non-engineers who don’t feel our pain, you have no right selling our jobs to put more good on your LSA table.

        • Adam Redlum

          “There’s a clear and understood lack of skilled workers for many engineering, programming, science, and medical positions, and the H-1B helps to address that.”

          So why are you receiving, quoting your own statement, hundreds of résumés if there’s a shortage of engineers? And you’re only selecting a few to interview?

          So let’s scale this then. If a lot of companies are doing what you’re doing, that’s hundreds of sidelines engineers for every one or two that gets hired.

          I should step back: Matt, do you know what “shortage” means? It has nothing to do with height, bud.

          And if you argue that we don’t have the exact DNA sequence of skills, why can’t you train us? We went to YOUR universities, AMERICA’S universities, THE BEST INIVERSITIES IN THE WORKD!!! We can be trained. We have demonstrated that we can learn anything put in front is us. The remaining 97% of Americans can’t even spell mathematics.

        • Viktar Sviatlichny

          Read the statistics! More than half of students cannot get a job because you pick it up. You and your companies have broken the right! You were the ones who submitted 3-4 applications from different companies and deceived us! We have to submit only one application, you submitted 3-4 applications! Stop complaining!

        • Although it’s been stated many times already, corporations are much more likely to hire cheap labor from India and China, because, well, it’s cheaper. The employer will have to pay an upfront fee for the H-1B visa, but they make up for it by paying the imported workers as little as they can get away with. The employees suffer because of this. I live in Silicon valley, and I’ve seen so many cases of a large number of young Indian or Chinese workers sharing an apartment (and associated expenses) because they simply can’t afford their own place. Why? Because they’re being exploited by their employer. This same employer will expect them to work 50-60 or more hours per week because they (the imported employees) are considered “exempt” and thus will have to work as much as the employer wants them to. However, because they are not hourly employees, they get absolutely no benefit from working extra hours.

      • Hi , I am an Indian entrepreneur and I was in software .80 percent of Indians who came through Infosys , TCS are all junk .I understand that Americans are naturally angry .By the way I also have many patents in US and many of my American business partner say that H1B has been viciously abused and it denied America of real talent . Talented Indians can get jobs anywhere and I know many working in Europe and Japan .The Infy ,TCS variety are almost all in US and can hardly be classified as talent. This chaps work for peanuts and that is why they are crying out for h4 …..

    • Tariq khan

      Buy American hire Ameeican is great but no American companies want to hire American.My case completing a B.S in data science no company wants to hire me or provide me with internship.They all need experience where would i bring the experience if i am not given a chance.This discourages American students to advance in technology.
      Trump administration should see to this

    • Those saying Americans should fill these positions, or America have enough STEM graduates to fill the positions, first should learn a little bit about STEM.
      That fact that you graduate from a technical school, does not automatically makes you a capable person to fulfill the available positions. The same way, is not just because you finished medical school that you can go ahead and start transplanting hearts on people.

      • Adam Redlum

        If you buy a car for $100,000, don’t you expect to be able to use it, to drive it?

        Teachers, guidance counselors, politicians, media, tech CEOs, Matt, are all LYING to our US students, telling them to go into STEM on the false promise that if they get a STEM education at, say, the University of Michigan, they will 1) get a good job in STEM, and 2) they will be needed by society. Obama has stated in EVERY SOTU Address, and I quite: “America needs more scientists and engineers.” It’s an absolute lie, and thank you Diego for pointing out that it’s true, companies don’t care about whether you have a degree anymore, it’s almost irrelevant as long as you have the skills at the right price.

        And we tell our kids this as we give away 100,000 US tech jobs to India, while 36% of our own STEM grads don’t get STEM jobs.

        This is why Trump said that this is the biggest job theft in history.

        Just avoid STEM, avoid engineering, and stop corralling our kids into STEM when the jobs go to Indians instead. Stop lying to our children when all we do is outsource their jobs.

        Michigan should just take their 100k and tell them on day 1 what is really going on. That way we lose all that money, but we don’t waste 4 years studying irrelevant, unneeded bs that won’t help us get a job, or keep a career after graduation. Money can be replaced, you crooks. But you succubi rob us of our time, our identity, our social status, and our dreams, quite frankly. And that’s AFTER you sell us on it. YOU sell us on it.

        I hate this country. I’m ashamed to be an American when America is such a lying, cheating fraud.

    • Viktar Sviatlichny

      I am an immigrant and I agree with you. Only legal status should allow working! Several times I came across the fact that companies refused me because applicants with an H4 visa agreed to work for less money.
      I am an American Citizen.

  2. The positions remain vacant not because of skill gap , but because of high expectations in terms of skills set by stupid hiring manager and super dumb recruiter who have no clue what the job role is, they want to settle for nothing but the best which does not happen or takes significant time.


      Why would someone not hire a person if he/she has the skillset and keep the job position open ? why should they compromise in skillset and hire wrong person. Any employer would like to have the best person on the job why would such a thinking be wrong. If you put yourself into a employer’s shoes you would realize there is nothing wrong in their approach. Every person aiming for that job role will fight only on merit ? whats wrong with such a system ? if you want to compete , compete on skillset and merit

    • That is not true at all. I interview people all the time for jobs in tech, and we get hundreds of applications for some roles that are filtered down to ~5-10 candidates at a time, and of those 10 maybe one is hirable based on their skillset and interview performance.

      And that’s not an issue with outrageous requirements; everyone else in the office had to pass the same interviews and demonstrate similar skill levels at the same point in their career.

      When we interview, we almost always interview US citizens first, and if we can’t find a US citizen to fill the role we will open up hiring to include TN, H-1B, or L1 candidates. The cost of hiring an H-1B candidate is around 30% more than a US citizen (in my industry), so it’s almost never in the company’s best financial interest to hire through immigration programs.

      The only time we’ve ever included international candidates in the original pool is when looking for specific skillsets like PhDs in specialized areas or similar where there are just a handful of experts available around the world (that speak English). But they would already get paid more, and fall under O-1 visas which are easier to get so it’s a bit of a different process.

      • Adam Redlum

        “That is not true at all. I interview people all the time for jobs in tech, and we get hundreds of applications for some roles that are filtered down to ~5-10 candidates at a time, and of those 10 maybe one is hirable based on their skillset and interview performance.”

        You made your own counter argument AGAINST engineering.

        These very numbers, this “hundreds of applicants : 1 hire” needs to be taught to our children, the very children you are all actively duping to go into engineering while you ALSO get 100,000 candidates from India every year. STUDENTS OF AMERICA, STOP LISTENING TO THE LIES OF POLITICIANS, YOUR TEACHERS, AND TECH COMPANIES! Avoid engineering at all costs if you want better odds of getting a job in your chosen field, after slaving for years to earn your degree, than a miserable 100/200:1 that these tech company hiring managers just cited. Let Indians pick America’s digital cotton. Enjoy life as a normal human being. Indians actually pay construction workers while us Anerican engineers are unemployed, through yet ANOTHER visa, the EB-5 visa. Outrageous.

        • Adam Redlum

          It’s almost Friday, and this quote by an engineering hiring manager is gold. Confessions of a serial outsourcer, or at least a typical tech manager who has oceans of engeering candidates from which to choose:

          “That is not true at all. I interview people all the time for jobs in tech, and we get hundreds of applications for some roles that are filtered down to ~5-10 candidates at a time, and of those 10 maybe one is hirable based on their skillset and interview performance.“

          It is almost therapeutic when the truth finally breaks free.

      • John Gates

        “That is not true at all. I interview people all the time for jobs in tech, and we get hundreds of applications for some roles that are filtered down to ~5-10 candidates at a time, and of those 10 maybe one is hirable based on their skillset and interview performance.”

        That is really an empty claim, and I don’t believe it at all.
        Give an actual example of a job, and the skill set that you could only get 5-10 candidates,and the PAY you offered. I would be very curious to learn about this job.

    • You are right about that. I have been looking at what employeers want since I will graduate with a Cyber Security degree Dec 2019. I found and intern position looking for 3-5 years exp. CISSP, CISM, and CEH. To get the first two you have to have years in the industry already, how is an intern gonna have that unless they came from someplace else looking to break into the market? HR managers for one dont know what they are talking about when it comes to these letters. Its an up hill battle for those of us looking for a job to pay off the student loans. Shut the whole H-1B system down for the next 4 years and see how that goes for hiring. More hacks are coming from Russia and China, lets import them over here, train them, then send them back with inside knowledge of our systems and wonder why they are so good at what they are doing. The US trains and equips the best hackers in the world.

  3. Adam Redlum

    It is a shame that America asks its own children that it needs more scientists and engineers, only to give the JOBS of those careers to India while 36% of OUR OWN NEW STEM GRADUATES don’t even get a STEM job after graduating. America sells out its best and brightest to save tech corporations MORE money after they pay 0% taxes. And Veterans and cops and firemen and nurses, doctors, writers, EVERYONE else in this nation enjoys the fruit of our endless labor. For shame, America.

    • Firstly, Indian abuse of the H-1B system is a separate issue from the overall STEM hiring concerns. The Indian firms were abusing the H-1B system by spamming it with applications for jobs that weren’t necessary or required to be filled in order to build up skilled workforces that are trapped in their job in the US.

      Secondly, there are a lot of jobs available for STEM graduates, with a continuously increasing demand for people particularly in technical fields like computer science and engineering, but it’s not like every graduate is a good fit for any job in their field. I’ve had to interview dozens of people for technical (STEM) roles in my current and previous company (both very large companies), and you would be surprised how few people are actually hirable based on their interview process.

      In my experience, I would recommend a hire for maybe 1 out of 5-10 interviewees, with an actual hire coming out of every 15-20 people since we require consensus among interviewers for the hire. And that’s already after our recruiters have pre-screened even more potential candidates out of dozens, if not hundreds of applications. For these types of roles, having H-1B candidates in addition to the American candidates makes a big difference in the ability to fill headcount within a reasonable amount of time, and to even find people qualified and capable of performing the work.

      And, in any case, everyone pays income taxes regardless of visa/citizenship but I can’t speak for the companies as I don’t get involved in that.

      • wageSlave

        The STEM education crisis is getting worse in California. The California Chancellor’s Office of community colleges serving 113 colleges just came out with estimates of what some STEM degrees can expect to make and it is not pretty. IT and health professionals with two year degrees are looking at crashing entry level wages. Some just above then soon to be California minimum wage $14.00 an hour. These are two and five year projections and they suck. There is no way American’s are going to pursue STEM degrees with these numbers. I’m pretty sure these numbers are coming from California EDD which produce decent numbers from the state tax rolls. The California equivalent to non-farm payroll. I’ll be making some calls tonight to verify it.


        You have to select computer and information science or Healthcare.

          • wageSlave

            I don’t get to choose the data. It’s very expensive to accumulate. I find it where I can. Usually, government agencies with huge budgets. They are the only ones that can afford to accumulate it. In this case it is associate degrees. The bachelor level isn’t much better. I’m currently looking for Cal State data and the numbers look like twenty years ago. At least at the Cal State level they still have the good sense to lie to their STEM students.

            I was part of a team in 1998-99 researching student uptakes into the labor market. You remember Y2k. It was one of the biggest spikes in hiring of college student programmers ever. You might say it was the golden year for college new hires. We interview MIS seniors and contacted them a year later. Over half were still unemployed. This was at the peak of demand. It is much worse now.

            Industry is creating the STEM crisis by not nurturing the food chain. Incompetence or capitalistic maliciousness it really doesn’t matter. One of the things you will notice is how incompetents always look for a government solutions to the afflictions they create for themselves. When over fishing causes a population to crash the fisherman want government to open fish hatcheries. The call for more STEM graduates was that kind of reaction.

            Higher education is a business. Calls for more students always bodes well for teacher employment. The educators know full well that it’s not going to work, but high employment is good. You can talk to any Dean of STEM and they will tell you they cannot find STEM teachers. Of course, they don’t finish the sentence with ‘At the price they want to pay.’ There are plenty of adjunct teachers looking for full time employment in the STEM disciplines. The positions available are Adjunct. Adjuncts are the dirty little secret of education. They are higher educations under employed. The fact is the higher education is adding to the problem and not serious about solving it. If higher Education is not a part of the solution, there is good money to be made in prolonging the problem.

      • Adam Redlum

        It was just in the news, yahoo finance: “Amazon pays $0 in taxes on $11,200,000 in profit for 2018.”

        So Bezos gets thousands of cheaper workers from India instead of hiring US citizens, you know, to work at a US company, and he doesn’t have to pay any taxes? Where does the US rank on the national corruption index list?

        If you don’t know that, then I assume you are uninformed and on here to keep the STEM lie propped up for your own personal benefit, you know, as a hiring manager for a tech company. Pretty clear agenda.

  4. Perfect move

    This is a perfect move. H1 B is for skilled labor so how come H4 EAD come into picture. If spouse needs to work then they should come on L1 visa.
    Also all this H4 EAD pulled down the pay way down because they are ready to work far below the market rate.

    This is a very good move.

    • Judging by your language skills (or the lack of it) you clearly are an Indian who is most likely also on a visa here – most probably a competing visa and are just sour that someone else is cheaper than you ha. Kudos! We need more of you to fight each other and get out of this country.
      You have proven your worth.

      • PigSkin

        Lol, you white trash seem to always amaze me! Why are you blaming non-white foreigners for your problems? Do you even work in IT? Educated? Who do you think contracts them? Tech companies do. You’re being sold out by your fellow Americans. But you rather blame the powerless. Are you made Oversees workers are just taking advantage of the situation. Why do you want them to leave the country? Maybe you should leave the country and go back to Ireland, potato famine is over!


      Fyi – if you are not aware H4-EAD is for H1 B Skilled workers who are waiting in line for green cards not for everyone. L1 visa doesn’t allow long term stay in the country, either you fix the green card backlog or allow L1 Visa holders for long term stay till immigration or provide H4 EAD. How can you expect spouses not to work for 20+ years and add value to their families waiting in line for green card

    • So your comment is really misinformed:

      1. No, H4 EAD has had no effect on actual market rates for employment. They are subject to the same minimum wage levels as regular employees, and many of the EAD spouses would qualify for an H-1B themselves but are unable to get work once they are in the US because of the lack of sponsorship opportunities.
      2. The major difference between the L1 and H-1B visa is that the person must have worked for the company outside of the US for 1 year before coming over to qualify for L1. In fact, H-1B visas actually have a minimum education requirement while L1 does not, so it’s strange that the L1 and L2 allow for Spouse EAD while we take away the H4 EAD.
      3. Statistically, spouses of people with degrees are more likely to have one themselves as well, so it’s statistically more likely that the H4 EAD employees are actually more technically-skilled than the L2 EAD employees.

      I think both L2 and H4 spouses should have access to EADs; allowing L2 to retain EAD status while removing it from H4 spouses is completely ignorant of how the system works.

    • Adam Redlum

      It is a good move, but it’s a ruse. Trump/congress is going to give it all to the flood of Indians by granting 1 million h1b visas a green card over a short period of time, several years. And then they can marry through their prearranged marriages and it’s a stronger h4 visa that results. We need to warn our US students away from this new career genocide. Absolute betrayal to our kids. Let them lead normal lives as construction workers and cops and firemen and accountants and doctors and lawyers. The Matts of the world robbed Americans of their jobs, their identities, their American Dreams.

      • We must tell students that to get a decent STEM job they need skills and attitude.

        The major part of their skillset should be self-learning skills, because very few STEM jobs can be successfully performed using specific skills learned in colleges. Forget about job requirements five or 25 or 40 years later. And yes, very few of modern corporations would provide serious training. There are several good reasons for this: (1) people will move to competition soon after completing the training, (2) corporations need workers now, not after the long training, (3) in a few years or even months business environment will change. Corporations may drop the respective business line, or merge, or restructure.

        Unfortunately, most of students sincerely believe that what is really counts is a diploma – that is substantially different than skills and attitude. Some students have a vague feeling that good grades would help in a job search. It is a bit closer to reality, but only a bit.

        We cannot blame students for the misunderstanding. The problem is really deep rooted: most of parents and K-12 teachers also do not realize what kids will need in their adult life.

        Correction: the above probably does not apply to “M” in STEM: medical schools + teaching hospitals probably do instill the required skills. However, it takes 11 to 14 years after high school graduation and selection is harsh.

        • Adam Redlum

          Teachers are the worst, along with guidance counselors. They know what’s going on. These tech visas are great for teachers and educators for two reasons:

          1) They get to ride the wave of this lie while we American engineers drown in it, by taking the money the government and tech companies provide to further their lie that we don’t have enough skilled American tech workers, telling educators to put that money to work FOR THEMSELVES by creating education positions FOR THEMSELVES, thereby ENRICHING THEMSELVES, all at the expense of the engineers who lose their jobs, their livelihoods, their careers. Teachers, too, are like the rabbis telling the jews to get on the train.

          2) The fact that American engineers are losing their jobs while Indians are winning them through a lottery system means that those American engineers aren’t having children at the rate that the government and it’s faulty social security requires, given that the solvency of social security is based on taxes, and tax revenue is proportional to population. Indians come here with their winning lotto tickets, making more money than they ever dreamed of compared to their third-world-country living conditions back in India. So they feel a strong sense of financial security, and their h1b visas last 3 years, so they buy a house and have children. That’s a good thing for teachers, because they now have a higher census, which translates to more money in their pockets.

          Double tap to the heads of American engineers = cha-ching to a teacher. Every time an Indian engineer flies into the US, a teacher gets her wings. It’s a Wonderful Life indeed, if you’re a teacher.

          And we engineering/STEM students SLAVE for these teachers and professors, both in high school and college. Imagine what our already-dismal national science and math test scores would be if those very students – the future STEM students of America – knew the truth about their futures and didn’t study for those tests, those courses like the rest of the American student population doesn’t? We do all the work and labor, lifting all the dead weight of the other students’ poor performance, to bring our national science and math test scores to the poor numbers that they are at compared to other nations. And teachers let OUR careers go to India at a rate of 100,000 per year? And they are out there just yelling and crying like mobster babies, and they get their 6% – 11% raises?

          There is something very wrong with this narrative, American teachers.

  5. Tech Worker

    This is a very good move, one step in the right direction, and a long time coming. I’m not opposed to controlled immigration, but the H1B program and its “cronies” (H4) are seriously abused by corporate America and erode any progress towards increasing STEM participation by US citizens. I would never encourage my daughter to go into computer programming, IT ,or related fields with the way things are headed. Just setting yourself up for a lifetime of LRs, increased work hours, eroding wages, etc. Now we just need to lower the caps on H1Bs. Then, by all means, fix the path to citizenship for those remaining.

    • If your daughter went into computer science I think socially it would suck, but economically she would be at a huge advantage, and it would be extremely easy for her to find a job compared to her male counterparts.

      And wages for computer science and programming are very high still. The H-1B immigrants actually cost us more to hire versus US citizens, so the preference is always to hire American when possible.

  6. Hiring of EAD workers at a lower wage is a myth. Smart people who run business hire right people and they are not the ones crying out here. A pool of american born workers who can’t compete with these EAD workers on the basis of skills and diligence, have one advantage over these EAD workers i.e. vote. This is more of a propaganda to garner votes from incompetent and shallow minded lower/middle class majority European ethnic groups in US by politicians who can’t compete in politics on the basis of actual issues. Such people exist is all countries and US is no exception. EAD spouses would rather want to work than being home prisoners and that’s more of human rights issue. The percentage of these EAD workers and H1B workers is minuscule compared to american middle or lower class population and this is no way impacts the employment figures of entire country. In fact, the cities hiring H1B workers have higher median income and higher standard of living which generate low skilled jobs taken by majority ethnic groups in US. The employment figures are all time low which makes this subject more of a propaganda than actuality.

    • Yeah, it’s really a shame that there’s so much incorrect information about the H-1B visa and H4 EAD process. The goal of these programs is to elevate the US workforce and maintain technical leadership globally.

      The misinformation and misunderstanding in the comments scares me, because alienating our immigrated workforce could lead to a brain drain which will only benefit other countries over the US.

      There are definite issues with the H-1B system that can be fixed, particularly with the IT industry, but proposing removal of the H4 EAD is a poorly targeted move that will disproportionately hurt the legitimate H-1B visa holders who are trying to fully immigrate to the US and settle here.

      • Adam Redlum

        What brain drain? You’re putting a BULLET in our brains when you lay off 8,000 engineers (GM) 3,000 engineers (Tesla) 20,000 engineers (IBM), 5,000 engineers (Microsoft) etc etc etc.

        And by the way, we European descent white make engineers that it’s okay to despise in this racial pendulum swing we’re currently in, we put a man on the moon, and developed some pretty amazing tech over the past century. India relies on Russia for SAMs, and US tech for other things. If India has so many awesome engineers, why is it still running on coal? Where’s the innovation from that country other than USB?

        • European decent, what makes you own North America? As far as facts are concerned, do a google search for biggest economies from 1 century AD to 17 century AD. You will have your answer. Europe was in trash for centuries. US didn’t exist. This is indeed a golden period of US and it hasn’t been a century yet. European people have done well for themselves by being the first to steal lands for other ethnic groups in last few centuries and you perhaps are reaping the benefits. Anyways, that was just a history lesson for you ignorant. I am not sure why you take credit for some smart people that just happen to be of same color as yourself.

      • Costs up, wages down

        When we have immigration legal or illegal – it drives costs up and wages down. That is true of any sector/geographic location and the whole reason to import people is due to their ignorance of that fact as well as the indentured nature of servitude etc.

        • IrishTrash

          What? Supply and demand drives up costs in housing which in the process drives up cost of living which then drives up salary to even it out. What’s with you people and blaming immigrants? Seems like you want to close the door behind you. Just because they don’t come from eurotrash you have to come up with an excuse to prevent them from coming here. You were once an immigrant from germanland Ireland Britainland.

    • Adam Redlum

      If you are a teacher, nurse, doctor, cook, server, cop, fireman, construction worker, dancer, sales clerk, garbage man, postman, administrative assistant, security guard, farmer, welder, salesperson, seamstress, hair stylist, mechanic, factory worker, truck driver, cashier, air traffick control specialist, flight specialist, pilot, professional athlete, lawyer… literally ANY PROFESSION OTHER THAN ENGINEER, your competition for a job is your fellow American, your interviews are under an hour, and companies look to other professions when it’s time for layoffs.

      When you’re an engineer, you ARE that other profession, that steam valve. You’re competing with 1 million cheaper indentured h1b visas already in the US, and 100,000 more Indians every. Single. Year. Every. April.

      So of course you have to lie, Matt, America, teachers, politicians… to keep those studious, diligent, while male sheep who do t know any better because they have their heads so far up Newton’s butt studying physics and math that they don’t know the politics behind these tech visas. They do t know that companies will want them gone sometime in their lives, well before normal retirement age, while no other profession endures suck strong propaganda.

      • @adam redlum – no – there are other occupations employing H1b visa holders. My local public school system hires H1b teachers – the first year they focus on how to find their way around, the second year they get their language skills up to speed and the third year they can (maybe) effectively teach. That is the exact process explained by one of the school board members. My kid has learning issues and cannot adapt to the language used by a foreign teacher and it is also important to note that the style of teaching they employ is mainly rote-learning with little classroom creativity. H1b is a disaster for our schools!

        • Adam Redlum

          Yes other professions have to contend with the H-1B and H4 and other visas as well. But the numbers that I’ve been reading are in the single-digit thousands. And while that number might sound high to you, as well it should, it is not even 1/1,000 of the number of H1B visas here in the US holding US tech jobs. While there are 3.5 million teachers in the US, there are over 1 MILLION H1B visas, and most of those are tech workers. And, again, teachers benefit from this by and large, through higher pensions, more students/higher census, and you’re getting smart kids from Indian parents who value education as opposed to another quarterback or soccer star who will ignore you in class, unlike us engineers who do the work. So, sorry, but teachers have no idea the magnitude of this issue for tech workers.

          Our students trust teachers. They trust them when they sell to them the false promise of STEM. And of course teachers are going to tell their kids to be studious and do your homework. But it is disingenuous advice. And the cynic in me believes that teachers knowingly do not share any information to their students about these visas. Forget STDs. These visas ruin the lives of good people, good US citizens, who studied and did all the homework you asked them, paid tens of thousands of dollars to go into college, and while some of us do well in our careers, others like myself are hit by a bus. A bus you knew was coming but didn’t warn us.

    • Cities with a lot of H1b also are the most expensive ones on the planet and generally the worst standard of living (traffic/weather etc etc) 100K in NYC is pitifully low, 90K in Alabama is fit for a king.

    • “EAD spouses would rather want to work than being home prisoners”. I completely agree with you. “Being home prisoners” is completely unacceptable. They should pack up their families and go to India, far from these terrible Americans. We do not need you here. Go back.

  7. Still many qualified Americans are jobless, with automation jobs are reducing and it is a bleak future for the College Grads taking sumptuous loans. US jobs should help Americans not for other country citizen’s who come thru short cuts and lower pay and kill the jobs here. Competency is a distorted factor and American companies are shrugging their shoulder to train the work force as to the current needs. If the American Corporations train the workforce then competency is not a concerning factor at all.

  8. Many Indian spouses are getting their H4 jobs with fake credentials and fake job history. Their LinkedIn account is all made up. They know how to talk pretty and woo the hiring managers. And in the end many of the H4 spouses aren’t working in tech but in jobs that aren’t specialized. Few if any H4 are working as accountants, nurses, electricians etc etc… They’re mostly working common sense jobs, non specialized office clerical work.

    Yes, only H4 whose spouses (read – husbands) are waiting for GC to be approved can work. But with most of the H1Bs from 6+ years ago having filed for GC, and more filing every day, the H4 EAD number can only increase.

    They need to go.
    All of them!
    And this is an immigrant speaking!!!

    • Many H1Bs get their jobs using fake credentials and fake job history too. And the Indian hiring managers always hire only Indians (with any visa or citizenship), rather than non-Indians. That closes a big part of the job market to non-Indians, and basically pushes all the non-Indians out of the job market.

  9. ‘Although critics of H-1B visas may cheer this latest move, executives who depend on the program are, predictably, not pleased.’

    Not surprising. These companies would rather hire cheap H-1B

  10. ‘Although critics of H-1B visas may cheer this latest move, executives who depend on the program are, predictably, not pleased.’

    Not surprising at all. These companies prefer to hire cheap H-1B labor instead of hiring their own countrymen.

  11. HaggisEater

    It’s funny how everyone’s blaming Indians for the lack of jobs (as if any of you are actually qualified to work them), but not the the tech companies who contract them. Who do you think lobbies to have all these rules and regulations passed? There’s a reason why they bring people from other countries, because it gives them a healthy bottom line and they get the required work done. Why blame oversees workers when they are taking advantage of a good situation. If I can get lobster for cheap, guess what I’m eating everyday?

    This is just a remixed version of, “they turk our jerbs”. They don’t look like us, they don’t eat like us, they don’t talk like us…they are the problem.

    I wonder if Americans would have the same reaction if a bunch of irish or scandinavish people came here doing IT work.

    • Adam Redlum

      From the language, mine anyway, it may seem that I’m “blaming” Indians. Not at all. I mean, I wouldn’t take a job in India for sake of my own life being taken. But, understandably, that’s because India doesn’t have the wealth that we have here in the States. But I don’t blame them for taking the jobs given to them. They are GIVEN to them. Honestly, I don’t even think H4 visas should lose their job privileges. It’s a faulty system, they aren’t at fault. Instead, I am personally railing against those who are TRULY responsible for this: politicians, tech executives, hiring managers, teachers, guidance counselors, and pretty much every non-engineer who gets a fatter 401K, a fatter pension, more students, more money. People who benefit from our (American engineer) misery while they sell us on this bogus field with their lies. That’s who’s to blame. Which is maddening, because they are supposedly our “fellow Americans.” Nothing fellow about them.

      I like how they brought the wife of the victim who was shot to death, I believe in Texas, to the State of the Union Address, a prop similar to the one during Cohen’s testimony, when Meadows used a fellow African American to make a point about racism, asking her to stand up while he made his point. The Indian who was shot in Texas was shot by some hick, not be an engineer who was arguably displaced by him. But the way the politicians frame it, if you’re not on board with giving your tech job to an Indian, you’re a racist. That simple.

      Indians are not to blame at all in this. If I were offered a job with a very high salary in RUSSIA, I’d take it. The bastards who are responsible for the displacement of American engineers are tech executives, hiring managers like Matt spreading lies, teachers and pretty much the entire education system that greatly benefits from all this, and the media for helping propagate all their lies, while simultaneously benefiting from these visas as well.

  12. We need jobs for half of Latin Americans pouring in over the boarder! No spouses should be allowed into the country. The H1-B job is temporary. Acually. let’s just can the whole program! Build the Wall! MAGA! .

    • The Latin American folks coming across are not taking the high oaying Tech Jobs. This is the problem with the wall. These illegal immigrants are coming here for low paying jobs that your or me woud not do and especially not the Asian Indians. They pick fruit and clean up garbage and are janitors. Low paying jobs. The H1 visas have takne over the IT Tech industry not the people coming from Honduras/El Salvador and the other countries but I agree we to stop that flow and create a work visa plan for them to help do these jobs. BUT, the wall shoukld be built around the whole coutry including Canada, we allow Canadians to come in at free will and take whatever fraking job they want but nobody says a word. Lets not leave out all of the other countries that are pouring into America and taking Jobs away from Americans that have families and WANT to work. I have seen in so many companies were a job for 140k tech job that has already been saved for the Indian guy or girl it was just posted for the HR sake of posting it but it was already filled they just had to follow guidelines. We need to stop the influx of LEGAL Imigrants they are hurting America just as much and if not more than ILLEGAL imigrants.

      • WhiteTrash

        Really? What companies have 140k jobs saved for Indians? Are you talking through emotion or logic? Have you ever thought of blaming American companies? They are the ones that agree to contract to consulting companies for low paid contractors. Indians aren’t coming to America making demands they are just filling them (don’t hate the player, hate the game). If you really cared you would create an American consulting company that only hires Americans to offset the influx of oversee workers.

        • The tech companies have part of the blame for hiring Indian workers.

          But even when the tech companies do not intend to hire only Indians, the local hiring managers of Indian origin will hire only Indian workers. For that I blame the Indians.

    • Adam Redlum

      There is nothing temporary about an H-1B visa. I believe they last for 3 years, with a simple extension for another 3, if I’m not mistaken. The media and pols like to beat that drum that these are “non-immigrant” visas. Then how is it we not have 1 MILLION H-1B visas here working in the US? There’s nothing temporary about it. It has become an immigrant visa indeed.

  13. We live in an area that employs certain workers, pays in cash with no documentation in new home construction, home health workers, home cleaners, and others. I worked at an investment manager .org; the SVP hired an executive assistant with whom I shared an office space. Within days, she had several phones on her desk and spent a great deal of time on them, not speaking in English. When she left a run stuck in the printer, I printed out her items and brought them to her desk. The docs were ID documents. She was concerned that I would report her. Being uninformed at that time, I said it was none of my business, but that she should tell her boss. She proceeded to tell me that her REAL job was her ‘company’ that provided a ‘full set’ of identification documents for ‘migrators’ from $3800 to $5000 each. She also arranged for living space, cars, medical care and jobs; these, I’m assuming, via assistance coordinated by the city (now a ‘sanctuary city’). I met one of her clients, who was excited to tell me, as she had several young children, the city gave her an allowance on an apartment with three bedrooms; she rented out two of them with six bunk beds each and she and her babies and toddlers used the last bedroom. She then asked me for money for groceries as she had used up her food stamps to sell food to her ‘tenants’ as my coworker told her I would do so. This is nuts! I love working in a diverse culture and have been privileged to work with two employers which attracted ‘legal’ workers from all over the world. Go through the proper process, and get welcomed here legally. Work a job (or multiple jobs as our aunts did when their family came here from Europe), LEARN THE LANGUAGE, FOLLOW THE LAWS, and be good people. Note to the uninformed: in 2016, I was offered a promotion in my company to work in Canada in the financial sector. I accepted the job (loved the manager and team already) and the wheels began to turn. My company was contacted by the Canadian Government and interviewed intensely about the reason for the promotion; when my company was asked, “Can a Canadian resident perform this job?” Of course, the answer was yes (I was a financial analyst). My work visa was denied. Gee, a government protecting the employment of its people? Being now unemployed, and forced to job hunt via the internet, I’m sick at heart at hearing that employers are having trouble acquiring ‘talent’. Forget ZipRecruiter, Indeed and the rest, and do your own hiring! Machines are looking at resumes – not people who can make the connections.

  14. I’ve seen abuse of the H1B and L1 Visas up close and I’m glad something is being done to protect good paying jobs from scammers and opportunists. But if we invite immigrants into the country for work, why tie one hand behind their back when they try to make a successful life here? Removal of this policy is like shooting ourselves in the foot. There is a place for the H1B Visa, let’s make sure that the legitimate Visa holders feel welcome and wanted.

  15. I’ve been writing software for 18 years and I’ve never worked with a competent Indian programmer. My current organization has been infested by them, including positions of management. In addition to their lack of programming skills they have zero soft skills. They do not communicate, they are dishonest, do not set expectations properly, and will make unrealistic promises to business due to their lack of fortitude.

    Quite frankly, it’s been 4.5 years of hell working at my current job. I feel like a stranger in my own country. Sadly, our government has sold it’s citizens out.

    • stefvedd

      The problem is that you are being the judge of who’s competent. You have an advantage of being born and growing up in a land full of resources. You just happen to by lucky that your European ancestors occupied the entire world using gun powder.

        • JohnIdiot

          They were not better but thieves that were lucky to invent gun powder and better weapons. That’s the whole perspective thing. It depends on who you ask. You are lucky that we are not living in an age where white man has a privilege but that is very recent thing in documented history. You don’t own north america. People with your mentality should be confined to European boundaries and never allowed to leave. If all white people were crunched inside Europe, then Europe would have been in crises.

          • IndianIdiot, the gun powder was invented by the Chinese, not by the Europeans. You are a failure of the Indian school system, like every other Indian actually.

          • IndianIdiot, the Indians had such “bad luck”, they could not invent an outhouse. Most of them cannot “invent” it even now. People like you should be confined to India, so that you do not make a s**thole out of other countries.

    • PigSkin

      Infested with Indians? Do you always bring a nationality down to sub-human levels? If you are in a living hell why don’t you just go to another company? I’m sure a bigot with 18 years of experience like you will be welcome anywhere. Maybe sack up and get into management? It’s funny how you feel like a stranger in your own country. I didn’t know 99.9% of America is now Indian. You come off as a bitter person. Don’t blame your problems on others

  16. Clinton2020 Americalast

    H1B visa is a cheap labor program. If they are truley top talent mission critical rare workers, the 300K Indians waiting for Green Cards would already be PRs. They need to go home and start their Fortune 500 companies there.

  17. I am unemployed programmer because of heavy H1-B and outsourcing to Far East (India, Singapore). I am past middle age. Very hard for a programmer to get a job at my age because of ageism. I have nothing against Indians. They are just doing what they are told. It is our corrupt government who feeds the greedy corporations more money and gives them more tax breaks on top that are to blame. Amazon, Banks, etc.

    By the way, I am happy Amazon got booted out of NYC. It was an Amazon Trojan Horse. You know why? Who do you think they were going to bring to work there? More H1-B s. Virginia is next. Who do you think they will bring to work there? H1-Bs. Don’t be fooled by the Amazon Trojan horse.

    Our corrupt government, which includes both parties, should tell these guys to train programmers. It is not rocket science. H1-B is an abuse of the system and yes, America will pay dearly because the ones who deserve to come (true research scientists) will not come here either because of abuse of this system

    • BitterTrash

      Sure, blame your problems on someone else. You’re unemployed because you’re probably not qualified. There are thousands of job openings for software engineers. I’ve
      Personally met white eurotrash Americans who’ve gotten engineering jobs without a college degree. It doesn’t take any effort to be a loser, but it requires work to be somebody in America. I guess you rather take the easy route and blame it on some imaginary problem. Struggle ends there when there’s something stopping you. Ageism, h1b, h4, cancer, aids, viral epidemic….

        • JohnIdiot

          John, you are perhaps a loser who is incapable of standing up to the competition with fair means. You are stating that this country’s powerful positions are run by non European descent. Haha. . You should question yourself on why you are being hateful and you will end up identifying your incapabilities. One suggestion – people like you are un american and you should go to Europe and live there. Your motherland is calling you.

        • EuroTrashCancer

          A small minority of H1b IT workers are a big problem for 350+ million Americans? CousinLover, have you thought that maybe it’s the big tech companies that are selling you out? Blaming your problems on a small minority is just pathetic and typical of some chicken nugget eater like you. Funny how you white trash project your racism on Indians. Get a master’s degree in computer science, then come back and talk about your woes of not getting a job. Do you even work in IT? Seems like you’re another PigSkin crusader complaining about non whites taking over America. I wonder if you’d be singing the same tune if a bunch of micks came here doing IT.

  18. I have to laugh at some of the possessive comments here. No one/country own a job.Even a CEO or a company founder can be fired in secs. Its not a birth right either. In this globalized world, if companies produce and sell in different countries how can they limit to hire from one country? Moment H1B is taken out, most of the jobs will be shipped out and so called ‘work visa critics’ may have to stand inline to get one from other countries.
    Don’t be lazy, work hard and also get competitive. Just like companies compete to sell products, service provides (employees) need to be competitive. Its a free enterprise after all.

    • Adam Redlum

      Shane, in principle, in theory, in the spirit of “give us your weary, your tired”, whatever, I agree with you.

      But first of all, this is not a global economy. ONLY STEM, ONLY ENGINEER is global. I can’t hire 40 Indians to build my house and pay them $20/hour instead of paying the stupid construction workers $50/hr. If you convince our government, the US government, to make our economy truly global, so that people from other countries can work in other jobs besides tech (and I know there are some, but nowhere NEAR the 1 million h1b visas in this country working in the tech sector), then I’d rest my case entirely. But, as it is, it is pretty much ONLY tech that is global, so ONLY our jobs, jobs for smart people, are going to workers of other nations.

      Second, I do believe it is the responsibly of any sovereign government to do right by its citizens. I would NEVER expect to get a job in India. I’d be angry on the behalf of INDIANS if I were offered a job in India, and I certainly wouldn’t take it. I’ve heard of managers being burned alive after they lay off Indian workers. We bitch and moan like civilized adults when our jobs go to foreign talent. 🙂

      And again, the tech job hiring process is skewed in favor of cheaper foreign talent, plain and simple.

      So all that theory dies in the face of the practical abuse of these tech visas. I’d love to buy everyone a coke, but I don’t have a job… in “my own country.”

      If tech execs and hiring managers, teachers and politicians, and the media weren’t lying to our children, resulting in more casualties down the road for their own financial benefit, I wouldn’t complain at all, I’d just try to move on. But what this nation, our own government, the US government, is doing to our future engineers/STEM workers, the best and brightest in our classrooms right now, doing their homework later while the others watch television, is absolutely reprehensible and disgusting. This level of mass propaganda hasn’t been seen since the 40s in Germany.

      Which is a good segue to the 2013 leak of FWD.us’ infamous “manifesto”, two which they issued nothing more than an “oopsie poopsie,that’s now what we meant to say” statement after… pretty much no fallout occurred whatsoever. Again, because the rest of the 97% of the American population/professions are benefiting from it:

      “1) We control massive distribution channels, both as companies and individuals. We saw the tip of the iceberg with SOPA/PIPA.

      2) Our voice carries a lot of weight because we are broadly popular with Americans.

      3) We have individuals with a lot of money. If deployed properly this can have huge influence in the current campaign finance environment.”


      • Adam Redlum

        I agree. But at the same time, I’m tired of being tired. I’m tired of the milquetoast, lazy, identity property logic that “it is what it is.”

        My most singular concern is that we do right by our youth, but we aren’t. We are propping up a lie that we need more scientists and engineers when we really don’t. And lives are shattered in the process. I shit you not. Lives are shattered.

  19. American Worker

    I’ve personally heard people with an H1-B Visa say they NEED their spouse to work to pay the bills. If H1-B Visas are for people who are highly skilled and they’re being paid the same as an American worker, why does their spouse need to work? Reform the whole program with a few simple steps:
    1. Jobs must be posted on NATIONAL job board. Find American workers.
    2. Employee must be paid the same as an American worker with same skills for that geography + 20% toward a fund for retraining American workers. Retrain workers for these jobs.
    3. Employee must take a test IN PERSON to prove they have the skills for the job. Prove they can do the job.

  20. When the comment period was open on the governement website there were thousands of cut and paste comments from H1b spouses saying how they could become a ‘two for one’ deal for American businesses. This has been so awful in reality. Americans who are here do not get the option of returning ‘home’ to another country. Americans can have these jobs and can pay taxes – and without jobs they have to rely on government support and/or have reduced earnings potential and contribute less to the economy. Displacing American workers is a loss to America.

    • Eurotrash

      What does the average American worker have anything to do with the IT industry? You know working in IT requires higher education and extensive knowledge. It’s a professional job similar to being in the financial sector. It isn’t a hammer and nail type of work everyone can do.

  21. Expensive cars on loan after arriving here in H1B;
    Apply spouse EAD;
    Quickly build wealth in their base in India;
    Buy a new house with a group of Indians in a remote area that is still developing;
    None of the new house owners know anything about lawn maintenance – but yet, here they are buying lands and houses at the cost of an American’s job.
    Buy another house back in India;
    Once green card is approved, go for the usual consulting business by selling bodies to corps.

    • WhitePig

      What are you taking about? Are you mad non-white people are outdoing you? You sound like a bitter white trash who should’ve spent more time in school. You should get mad at tech companies that use these contracting firms to increase their revenue. Why blame Indian people? Are they perfect scapegoat for your problems?

      • Not-a-white-pig, it is the liberal US law that allows folks like you and your spouse to legally work here (at the cost of 2x American jobs). Contracting firms and Corporate are just following the law here. American laws were written by Americans. So be thankful to fellow Americans for allowing you to work here, and give that back to an American if you ever had to interview Americans to positions in your team. Mutual help is beneficial. Will conservative India ever allow people from other nations to take your high paying jobs? No.

  22. Citi Zen

    Simple…Have the skilled worker do the work from their country (aka offshoring) and provide onsite jobs to US CITIZENS only. These companies offshoring work must invest in training local US CITIZEN and release the skilled worker in a year. If it’s too hard to train remotely have US CITIZEN travel to the skilled country to get trained or get them here for 3 months only allowed once in 12 months.

  23. Stefon

    If these H1B visa workers are so great, they should be paid MORE than American workers not less and tech workers wages have been falling over the past 20 years. Here’s a simple solution to the problem. Make the mandatory minimum H1B salary $200,000 per year. This way the government is pretty sure that any company that is willing to pay that much for said worked knows that talent is truly unique and can’t be found anywhere else. The government also doesn’t have to spend nearly as much money to administer the program either. Wage will rise and opportunities will open up for Americans who have been shut out of the job market due to abuses of the current system.

    For many of you Indians here who are critical of American’s complaints about what this program and how it is hurting them, you should take heed because it will eventually come to a point where the backlash will be severe. It is to a point where we can’t even get a job in our own country without going through Indians. We go to a interview, walk past a sea of Indians sitting at desks working away, get interviewed by Indians, then get rejected despite answering all technical questions correctly and the reason given will be something akin to “Not a good fit”.

    The culture of bribery and inside dealing has contributed to the H1B abuse that has allow for entire IT organization to become 100% H1B and Indian nearly overnight. Once 1 Indian moves into management, they often take kickbacks to place workers from firms and they will also hire or promote people only from their caste.

  24. This is what happens when the system is abused. Especially by employers, but immigrants as well. It will take years to repair what has been damaged. Most employers are still abusing it. I will be glad when they are punished like American techies have been for years. “Follow the rules or get out” is how I feel about it.

  25. I know someone who got contract job on H4 EAD visa, and that person have shown fake experience in resume , worked less 1 than year, but shown 8 years of experience. Moreover this person claims on resume that it has bachelors from reputable a US college, however in real that person has only has high school diploma. The greedy IT vendor (consulting company) didn’t bother to verify the qualifications & experience and hired on contract to work for a Fortune 500 client. Unfortunately, because H4ead employment verification process is not same as H1, this person was able to scam the system. I personally know many hard working folks on H1 and like to welcome them with open arms. I also understand the people on H4 should be given opportunity to work, however I strongly believe same rules like H1 verification should be in place for H4 EAD hires. Current rules have lots of loopholes.

  26. Venkat

    The H4 are competing the Department Of Labor LCA or job allocation for the “skilled workers”. In the job market today, those Indian managed consulting companies are competing and replacing in their favor to hire H4 dependents because the rates are very low, they are not mandate with the LCA wages and income so the Indian companies prefer to use them. There is a long loopholes in the hiring process and providing a quality skilled workers. There are spouses that they hire just to sit down and show up at the Clients location without doing the job responsibilities so that they can bill the companies and milk them. This is a mockery of the labor system in the USA, they are abusing the system!!

      • I am in IT over 30 years

        I am in IT over 30 years and I went through outsourcing. Since Y2K our IT Professionals from manger down to programs was replaced by Indians. They started with low price to replacing locals and know their rates tripled. I was working on the project and requirement was copying exiting program to copy from master data attributes from given materials. Just a copy function, it took them four years and delivered garbage with no quality. If it was local American at the most will take them 4-6 weeks max to deliver.
        All The big companies are investing, and training Indians instated of Americans because of their greed (IBM, Microsoft, SAP, HP, etc.….). the They are advertising for a job and keeping the rate so low and on top of that most of hiring managers are Indians and they won’t hire locals to keep their gangs going strong. Today 95 percent of recruiters are Indians and they are claiming that they are the first-tier vendors without knowledge of job requirements and sometimes they ask you to alter your resume to fit the job descriptions.
        We should not be afraid of nuclear threat from North Kora, most of our financial and other information are residing in Indians serves and hope they won’t cut or disable or sale our information.

        • Very rightly said, the biggest beneficiaries ar low paid Indian IT workers who displace American workers due to abuse of the H-1B visa program to bring in cheaper labor.

          yes all the recruiters request their Indian candidates to tailor resumes to get vacant jobs filled by cheaper labor.
          H-4 visa is another kind of Visa displacing American workers for cheaper pay.

  27. I am in IT over 30 years and I went through outsourcing. Since Y2K our IT Professionals from manger down to programs was replaced by Indians. They started with low price to replacing locals and know their rates tripled. I was working on the project and requirement was copying exiting program to copy from master data attributes from given materials. Just a copy function, it took them four years and delivered garbage with no quality. If it was local American at the most will take them 4-6 weeks max to deliver.
    All The big companies are investing, and training Indians instated of Americans because of their greed (IBM, Microsoft, SAP, HP, etc.….). the They are advertising for a job and keeping the rate so low and on top of that most of hiring managers are Indians and they won’t hire locals to keep their gangs going strong. Today 95 percent of recruiters are Indians and they are claiming that they are the first-tier vendors without knowledge of job requirements and sometimes they ask you to alter your resume to fit the job descriptions.
    We should not be afraid of nuclear threat from North Korea, most of our financial and other information are residing in Indians serves and hope they won’t cut or disable or sale our information.

    • https://www.cbsnews.com/news/are-u-s-jobs-vulnerable-to-workers-with-h-1b-visas/
      Finally- Thank Pres. Trump for this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5beoWc0tOik

      H1B Visa program was originally designed to allow US companies to hire from overseas if they cannot find qualified US workers on US soils. One of the examples was a graphic artist that could speak a second rare language to help this publishing company. Due to the introduction of H1B visa program, the owner of the company was able to recruit this specific worker who has the enhanced linguistic skill and also can do graphics for his company. It is not meant to create loopholes for companies to maximize their profits and begin the outsourcing of American jobs.

      Companies such as Infosys, TCS, Tech Mahindra Americas, etc…tend to snatch up all the visas within months and send their workers over to the US to learn work in the US. Some foreign workers stay for couple of years. During Obama Administration and the recent recession of 2009 American workers for big corporations such as Intel, HP, Dell, etc…were forced out of jobs in massive amount. There’s a whole website created by HP workers lamenting the cruel process of layoffs for corporate profits. HP laid off enough workers and for every worker that would affect 3 more people- on average, their family (spouse and 2 kids). If this is not hurting American citizens I don’t know what is. For these workers, before they were let go, they had to be squeezed once last time by the greedy corporation, sort of “digging their own graves” way, by training these foreign workers. Corporate executives/HR people refer to euphemism terms such as ” knowledge transfer” and they dangle severance packages in front of these employees who are about to be laid off. Many have families to take care of so they have no choice but comply.
      Regarding these so called high skilled workers, – majority are from India, the newer waves are from Middle Eastern countries such as Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Nigeria, etc.., Some are from South American workers Puerto Rico, Costa Rica. At any rates, these workers are nowhere as smart or more high skilled than American workers. American workers who are Engineers, IT specialists, Programmers, Financial professionals, Accountants, Economists etc….are actually the ones who attended verifiable ABET Universities, Technical Institutions, conducted on US soils. They actually learn things the way America do things, and the certification process is set up to meet ISO standards. The degrees whether they are B.S, Master or PhD from those foreign countries are not verifiable in America. When they come here, they take equivalent of American tests. For example American students have to take SAT to get in, these guys can take TOEFL and these testing centers can be bought and as results the results are often cheated compromised. (There was a huge article about Chinese students cheating in these self-administering centers). Anyway, that is just to illustrate my points. The government of these countries is also very corrupt and can easily be bought. It’s not what they know, it’s who they know, and they will get a piece of diploma in their hands to get them the “high skilled” label, but it does not mean anything. When come to the US, these people are just mediocre. They can barely speak English. Their accents are so thick that people always have to communicate with memos and letters after each meeting to make sure they understand what the meeting/conference was about. Ever heard of bedside manners by some of those doctors/manners imported from those developing countries- they are terrible. Their regards for human lives, for medical emergencies are not the same as in America. We jump at the sight of blood or at the slightest symtoms. Those doctors and nurses just take things slowly and precariously because to them their standards of urgency are different. Not mentioning these degrees and jobs can be bought in those countries.

      There are some software programmers that are very good at what they do, don’t get me wrong. I’m not discounting them. However, it is because the hardware resources in those countries are so scarce, it forced them to beef up in their programming skills, creating all these special formulas to force the computer to take in more for lesser operating resources. This is in opposite of the western world, in America, Europe, etc…where resources such as hardware, memories chips are cheaper and abundant, so the programmers don’t have to work as hard. They just have to do simple coding. Also another thing I want to point out is the term “Indian coding” is very popular among IT workers in the US. It is a joke pointing at all these twisted, entwined coding plus bugs embedded, created on purpose by these Indian IT workers onto American’s company programming system. They put the bugs in or create mysterious loopholes in the programs so American IT workers can’t get the system to work, after the contract has expired. The American company has no choice but have to re hire those contractors. It’s job security for them and they know it. It’s only knowledge transfer one way, US to them, not vice versa. Americans- if we play by these rules, we will lose. That’s why we need people like Trump, in your face type, who will do anything to protect hard working Americans from being ripping off or fall into victims of outsourcing, insourcing of greedy corporation’s scam. These workers also cheat in Medicare and Social Security taxes.

      Regarding how they contribute to our economy and pay their fair share of taxes- no they don’t. I’ve seen some lady’s post on Dice H1B/H4EAD topic about how Indian/foreign workers work and contribute more so than American and some don’t even stay for Medicare/Social Security Benefits. To that lady’s response- I would say that’s because they couldn’t get a green card to stay, if they could, they would definitely not forgo a single opportunity. I’ve heard so many stories from my friends who are in the HR/Payroll Administrative fields that these guys will sit in the lobby of HR office and demand a manual check cut for them, if we missed calculate their paycheck, even if it’s only a couple, or $5-10 dollars. They could not even wait to the next cycle. I’ve witnessed some Indian Contracting lady who would come to work early in the morning, like 6 AM California time and make massive phone calls to her relatives in Mumbai, using company’s phone lines and or using companies’ issue cell phones. Then she has the nerves to file for expense reimbursement with Accounts
      Payable. When got called out by audit/finance staff, she said these are business related activities.

      On payroll checks, Americans pay around $10K or roughly 10-14% in Federal Income Tax
      State tax is another 13.-16% depending on which state you live in. FICA (Social Security tax is about 6.2% and Medicare is 1.4% of your total earnings. This lady claimed that they don’t stay for Medicare/social benefit. She forgot to mention that they would be the first one in front of our Payroll/HR office, screaming for reimbursement if we erroneously processed their paychecks wrong and take out their FICA/Medicare/ taxes. The thing is many of these foreign workers have ultimate goal- to stay in America and get green cards and citizenship. Which is fine! I don’t have any issues with that. If they earned their time, play by the rules, not dealing drugs, involved in criminal activities, they should earn their way to legal residence. However once they are in, they never offer to pay back any taxes that they were exempt from being non residence. US government does not have rules to make these guys go back and retro paying back all the Medicare and social security taxes that these guys skipped out during their early years. When they get old, they draw from the same system just like anyone else, but didn’t have to pay into it the first 5-10 years or however long it took them to gain permanent resident status in the US. They even sponsor their moms/dads/ aunts /uncles who are old, ailing, and passed working age, eventually these people will qualify for Social Security and Medicare. The US government will not deny its people of necessities such as food and medical needs.

      This is fleecing of America. In my opinions and President Trump and his administration, please do something about this. Bring justice back to America Tax Payers who are already being burdened with heavy taxes to support all these crazy social programs.