Trump Administration Going After H-1B Spouses

H-1B under Trump is under fire.

As many wait for the Trump administration to make a big move on H-1B visas, it seems the government is going after those related to visa holders.

Spouses of H-1B visa holders are the target this time. Trump’s White House plans to eliminate a provision that allows those who are married to H-1B visa holders to work stateside under the H-4 visa while the H-1B holder is navigating the green card approval process.

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) didn’t say why it was moving forward with this proposal now, only citing the “Buy American, Hire American” executive order Trump signed in April. A formal process for revoking H-4 visas hasn’t been initiated.

However, the move already has some wind at its back. Well before the executive order, a group called ‘Save Jobs USA’ petitioned to have the Obama-era rule about H-4 visas reversed. This group is made up of former tech employees who claim to have lost their jobs as a direct result of the H-1B visa. It’s a terse back-and-forth, with Save Jobs USA asking for congressional intervention:

Save Jobs filed a lawsuit challenging the DHS’s decision to provide work authorization to H-4 spouses and asking the court to permanently enjoin (i.e., stop) DHS from issuing such work authorization. DHS promptly asked the court to dismiss Save Jobs’ complaint for lack of standing, meaning that Save Jobs cannot identify an injury “fairly traceable” to the H-4 rule that the court could remedy. DHS also maintains that Congress did not intend to protect Save Jobs’ members from “generalized concerns” that more nonimmigrants in the work force may make it harder for those members to find jobs.

Save Jobs contends that only Congress can decide which visa categories may include work authorization. According to Save Jobs, DHS can only issue regulations allowing work authorization for those categories Congress has already identified. As a prime example, Save Jobs points to the laws Congress passed in 2002 to authorize employment for L-2 spouses (spouses of certain nonimmigrants working for multinational companies (L-1s)) and E spouses (spouses of foreign nationals who also are benefiting the U.S. economy through trade, investment or highly-skilled employment under certain treaties the U.S. has entered (E-1, E-2 or E-3)). Save Jobs contends that DHS may only issue regulations authorizing H-4s to work if Congress explicitly authorizes H-4 spouses to work.

The case was dismissed with prejudice in September 2016, and is currently tangled in the appellate process. It’s not the only legislative action focused on visas; earlier this year, Congressman Darrell Issa (R-California) and Representative Scott Peters (D-Calif) took aim at the structure of the visa program via the Protect and Grow American Jobs Act.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), a division of DHS, recently made it tougher to have H-1B visas renewed for existing workers. An uptick in RFEs, or “requests for evidence,” signaled that the government agency was starting to monitor H-1B visas. Premium processing for H-1B was also halted.

Hardest hit by this proposal may be Indian women. An estimated 80 percent of H-1B recipients come from India, and roughly 90 percent of the 36,000 H-4 holders are women.

It’s worth noting that the DHS is only calling its shot, as there’s currently no formal rule change in place. This proposal also doesn’t prohibit spouses from traveling with H-1B visa holders; it only removes their right to work. But that’s a drop in the bucket for ‘job protection,’ and may not dissuade many H-1B applicants.

At this juncture, it’s hard to say if the White House and DHS are chipping away at a perceived problem and trying to make good on a campaign promise, or doing just enough to ward off criticism. Without actual action and sweeping policy change, some may think it smacks of the latter.

73 Responses to “Trump Administration Going After H-1B Spouses”

  1. Eric Bliumis

    Good move. The labor participation is still not where it should be. The wage increases are not inching up as they should be with supposedly low unemployment. The hiring cycle is still excruciatingly slow and hesitant compared to how it used to be in 90s early 2000s (defying the notion that companies are desperate for available labor). So, placing H-1B spouses at the end of the queue is justified and stands in the best interest of USA workers, who are already facing pressure from labor automation and wholesale outsourcing.

  2. John Connor

    U.S. Developers:

    Please start raising the salary rate per hour, its been a nightmare with the H1B and it needs to be ended, companies are making money anyway and we are doing the hard and intellectual work for all of them. Say no to middle man who are dropping the prices and its importing cheap labor.

  3. Jason Schlamp

    I hope this is not just talk and the Trump administration actually takes a step and implements the rule to stop spouses of H1B workers taking more of the US jobs. A majority of these workers show multiple years of fake experience and look so much better on paper compared to US worker’s honest resumes. It is time our government actually starts promoting US workers and more importantly, focus on investing in growing tech talent in the US Universities.

    • Its sad but Jason is right. The Indians have been used. Period. On paper jobs are there for IT Infrastructure and Support. They are not being filled by US workforce. The Indians have become the belt on the backs of the new slaves in the United States. The US IT Infrastructure and Support teams. Got to love how Program and project management hr teams have ultimately received their revenge. Once again they are on top. As always. When will proving you are the boss, stop?

    • Hello jason
      You cant simply generalize the statement that all h4’s are fake or stealing jobs. It is EAD given to h1b spouses are already in process of getting GC.if not today after few years they will get. And moreover who said they are doing jobs, i know many who are doing business as well. No one is getting jobs bcoz of visa or country. Its just talent and education. Stop abusing us and improve ur talent or education and get a job. No recruiter or manager is dumb to hire a person who has fake experience. A person is hired if he/she has real talent. No offence plz try to understand us, even we are contributing to this economy. This country is land of dreams and immigration. Afterall even your are not native indian.your great great great grandfather is also immigrant. Dont forget that

  4. John Knecht

    I agree with Jason. The H1B workers have been used. Period. I have experienced the U.S. IT and Development worker being pushed down to entry level positions. You think from the outside looking in that its the individuals fault. This in many cases is not the case at all. Global commitments have and are killing the United States ability to execute at the operational levels and at the development levels. We teach in this country SDLC and operational process. We work by continuously throwing out what we are taught because management removes parts of these educated processes to drop salary. H1B are the main source of this salary reduction commitment. The H1B have used the United States to come up. When will this be reciprocated? and how…as I don’t see that it will ever. I am a shell of my former self and have been effectively removed from the workforce as a consistent contributor.

  5. Pranish Gupta

    I always wonder why Americans struggle to match H1B employees. Think about it they are working in the same location (not in a cheaper country) , many times more work than American counterparts. Cost the employer in terms of attorney fees of roughly 5-10k per annum.

    Govt fixes a minimum salary hrough LCA and still they are hired over Americans. Makes you wonder why ?

    Are they more flexible ? Better work ethic ? Willing to adapt ? How can they live and thrive with lesser salary than American counterparts ?

    I think the problem lies with Americans . New kids don’t want to come to IT industry. On other hand 40+ folks are used to an extremely comfortable lifestyle, spoiled by too many vacations not ready to learn newer technologies , too much baggage and too many expectations.

    Now lobbying Trump to give them welfare on private organisations.

    It won’t take much for these companies to simply outsource just like manufacturing and as a result US will lose more jobs and taxes.

    • “Spoiled by too many vacations…” Well, that’s all relative, isn’t it? Rather than lowering our wages and lifestyle expectations, perhaps foreign nationals should stay in their own countries and get THEIR government and economies to work better for THEM! Everybody is so proud of their culture and country they come from, so why do they insist on coming to America, “the land of evil imperialists who elected a neo-Nazi for president”?

      • Santosh Nair

        Everyone comes to USA looking for opportunities. Do you know how hard it is to just qualify for an H1-B visa due to competition over the limited number given out every year? You cannot imagine especially from countries like India and China, where the brightest minds aspire to come and work for US.
        So Please don’t have the mindset that they should go back to their countries.. everyone who is saying that themselves have roots of immigration – be it now or few generations back .. keeping aside the abuses of visa programs, it shouldn’t be taken out on the individual on H1-B who deserves just as much chance to be here like the citizens and now green card holders complaining about it!

        • Stephen Van Osdell

          TOTALLY DISAGREE! If these H1B people are so smart and love India so much, why no stay there and work on improving your own country? My ancestors came here in 1700’s when the place was empty! And it was relatively empty through the 1800’s and early 1900’s. But, most of the people who came here came from Europe and Russia where cultures were very similar. I don’t care how smart you are, or how hard you need to work to get an H1B visa. That doesn’t give you the automatic right to come here and take a job from a young person who grew up here. Again, just REVERSE the situation – how did you feel when the British flooded your country like it was their birthright? Or if US citizens were flooding India and taking all of your good jobs (what ones there are). And you seem proud of your caste system and never talk about it right? Just because India and overpopulated and you happen to sort of speak English and have fairly well off parents there who educated you DOES NOT give you the right to come here and hold down a job that could go to my child who I spent $80K putting through school? And especially, NOT THE RIGHT to bring your wife with you in child bearing age, get her pregnant here, and volla! instant citizenship almost! NO! That has to stop! We could be also bringing smart people from many other countries, you just happen to know some basic English (but not idioms unfortunately).

          • Stephen Van Osdell

            Really? I’m glad you enjoyed it. But, how about pointing out exactly WHICH part of it is arrogant and or NOT TRUE? It is so easy to just make a statement with nothing to back it up. Do you deny anything I said is not factual? Which part? Be specific. You can’t can you.

    • Perhaps you should do some digging. What many of the families do is move several families into a single family home and pool their resources. Doing it this way they can manage on 1/4th of what we do. Would you like to live with 10-15 people (or more) in a single family home? I do not see why I should have to do that to provide a home for my family. Before you say it doesn’t happen, wrong, I lived in a neighborhood where at least a third of the 500 homes were set up this way.

  6. Ravi Bingi

    Most of the people above may be right. But just think from the other end of the spectrum. I literally feel US is tremendously benefiting because of the H1 B program they have. Just imagine you have a program that invites the brightest talent across the world to work for US Companies. Then I believe US Compnies benefit more than the H1B. If you do not bring in the talent, companies don’t make profits and economy goes down. Now you do not want the spouses to work, making only 1 person in the household to work and support their spouse and kids, that’s tough on the H1 B candidate. Eventually they go back or stop coming or start going to a different country to show their skills. Once this starts happening in a bigger scale and over decades other countries will get stronger in technology than US. Finally US loses. So, they have to think carefully before they decide.

    • This is the unholy spawn of the Obama administration. I curse his name everyday (I used to have health insurance, now I have 7000 deductible, and my consulting rates are what they were in the 90’s if I am lucky) We weren’t bringing in H1-B’s fast enough to make Google, Amazon, Microsoft, and Facebook happy — so they came up with the brilliant idea of doubling the immigrant labor pool by issuing spousal work visas. Almost no one noticed, that overnight, without legislation he violated the tech workers without mercy. Because Republicans are in bed with the same companies, no one complained very loudly. THIS IS WHY WE ELECTED TRUMP. To try and undo some of the extreme damage done by the DEMS/REPUBS. It amazes me that tech workers hate him so much and he is the only one who is thinking in terms of the damage done to tech industry and jobs.

    • US get rid of H1 and hopefully the immigrants and co to some other country. The left over dickhead Americans rejoice with weed and crack. And the country goes to hell. They can export their pornstars to china

    • Chaitanya

      I totally get your concern and the how IT industry suffers because of people taking advantage of loopholes in system . But Its really a naive way of tackling problems, i.e trying to curb the symptoms. Like I understand a huge part of H1-B community is from IT sector. But other then that there are legit International community of students who come in for other majors Like Industrial, mechanical,chemical engineering majors who have Invested their Life savings to get quality education In your country trying to be an active part of local community and supporting the national economy with their taxes. Trying to curb malpractices in IT industry makes a huge impact on employers in other industries too. It is like I’d like to believe these people getting caught in between the cross fire, I totally believe American citizens should have the first right to a job in an american company. It is also me who believes that US has enough jobs to accommodate both immigrants and nationals at various pay scales. I understand it is shitty on few of my colleagues behalf that they try to blame your lifestyle when they are trying really hard to adopt that lifestyle. But just a food for thought Is is really fair for employers in other skilled work sectors to be scared of regulations created to curb the wrongdoing in IT sector?!

    • Its is true that hige services company from india are taking fullest advantage of stratching the Americans and their well developed economic growth to the maximum extant possible. It is indeed ruining the actual quality of labor and the image for specifically Indians living here!

      Its high time, for Americans to make a good decision for themselves and take action against the looting that is happing in big corporates by these Indian services industry.

      Im totally in support of hiring correct talent for the requirement. I hope this will be considered by Trump and his administration to persue their decision making process.

      I hold a H4 EAD and my Husband is a H1B both of us are working in the tech industry. We have invested a lot of money in getting us a masters degree that we were passionate about. Should I loose my job, I might head back to india and find a job that fits my expectations and experience. Sadly, that could end up being a filthy services industry.

  7. It’s amazing that we now have a president that actually seems to care about American workers and less what the corporate leaders of the Silicon Valley have been lobbying (bribing) the previous administrations to do for the last 2 decades. I’ve worked in tech since the early 80s and saw what happened first hand. It was never fair to pit Americans against people from third world countries who would do anything to escape their lousy economies and governments. It was a move by greedy corporate leaders that led to all of this. Notice that products are not cheaper because cheaper labor is used, and that goes for the cost of houses to networking services.

  8. It is sad that most of complaints are coming from people that don’t do basic math. Every year there are ~200000 new IT jobs, and number of H1Bs does not change for decades.
    And those immigrants are employed by American IT leaders. There has to be something else than just cheap labor.
    There is significant drop in work ethics among US employees and what companies want is reliable worker.
    CEO’s know that H1B employee will be there for a long time. They keep them usually by false promise of a green card and misuse their position by giving them hardest and most boring and emmbarasing assignments any American will refuse.
    And those that complained to lose jobs want to do visual basic for 100k. You just don’t want to change and learn.
    You all know any immigrant has higher value for company because its skill set improves constantly, will stay even if it gets bad, will accept ANY assignment, will go far beyond its work requirements, will not complain on unpaid after-hours or working late… and most important, will not leave when there is a better opportunity.
    And you have to know this counts for all immigrants, but mostly used are Indian workers that must wait for green card over 15 years. So employees get 6+15 years of cheaper, extremely skilled and motivated employee.
    That sure does not look good for those who thinks a job is their right, not responsibility.
    Maybe IT is not for you. It changes fast.
    Try law or medical school.
    Ah sorry, school system is totally ruined. Only rich can afford real school. Not sure there are any immigrants there.
    Almost forgot… got info 80+% of math students are immigrants?

    • Stephen Van Osdell

      I do not agree with your assertions! I’m 68 years old and have been in IT since 1980. Most of the companies I know of personally have had not so good experiences with outsourcing their projects or with hiring H1B workers. For every 10 you bring on as contractors, you get 1 good employee. Also, at my present company, we have many H4 wives working. My company allows these mostly Indian workers to ‘get away’ with a lot that wouldn’t be allowed for an American employee. One company I know of laid off all of its performance engineering department and outsourced this to a team of about 50 Indian ‘engineers’. Less than a year later, they had learned their lesson and regretted laying off their American worker staff of 14 people and had to ‘fire’ the outsourced workers and start over. The image that ‘Dev’ above paints to the reader about these ‘perfect and cheap’ Indian IT workers is not entirely accurate.

      • I agree with you that generalization is bad. US would not become what it is if there were not people like you. Skilled, dedicated and reliable.
        But you are aware that large number of IT/Tech companies have been built by immigrants (Amazon, Google, SpaceX…)
        And there is big difference between local H1B and outsource.
        This all has become a witch hunt towards immigrants that have highest work ethics, pay taxes and benefit society. You have 10x more new citizens through false paid marriage that instantly misuse wellfare and drain the budget, or get job in IT.
        To put opposite example, I’ve seen company laid off highly skilled immigrant (with no other motive than yours) and then needed to hire 3 local engineers to replace him, unsuccessfully. Company lost skills and money, while another employer who hired him enjoys benefit of new contracts and better future.
        You do understand that knowledge knows no borders. And progress does not come without sacrifice. There are things that have to be improved, as current system favors immigrants from 3rd world countries.
        How many European immigrants have you met?
        But if witch hunt does not stop everybody will suffer as there will be no one to build ships. And someone else will fly to mars

        • Stephen Van Osdell


          First, it is obvious from your English that you are not native born to this country. So, in the spirit of full disclosure, don’t you think it would be nice if you revealed that YOU probably came here on an H1B visa or maybe on one now? Don’t you think that prejudices your comments and opinions?

          Here is my blunt point. The United States was formed by mostly Christian European immigrants. Our culture is based on long held European traditions. What if we don’t want our culture to be diluted by millions of people from societies with cultures and traditions totally different than ours and who don’t really want to assimilate in our culture. Even when Russians came her long ago in 1800’s, they came from Christian culture with Christian and European traditions. The culture and embedded caste (class structure) is part of your culture along with Hindu and other religions which are totally incompatible with Christianity. Your country (if India) is falling apart under its own weight and is a mess. But yet you want to come here and take jobs at lower pay that prevents our kids from having access to EVEN IF they are just as smart or smarter – because the dollar savings will be an incentive for any country. There are also things like accent that make many people from India hard to communicate with. They may know English, but they DO NOT know our idioms! You come here and then want to stop our Christian traditions and other customs. I believe that if your country was being flooded by peoples who wanted to totally change the belief system in your country, you would be upset also! But, yet, you hide behind that fact that your customs won’t eve allow an Indian woman to marry a European man (with some exceptions). Wait until you have to spend what an education here costs only to see your child not be able to find a job because some person fresh from China or India is willing to work a little cheaper. Frankly, I overall like Indian people, but I prefer that Indians stay in India and Chinese stay in China. I’d like to keep the USA the way it was if you don’t mind. Yes, I am on old guy at 68 years old but I have eyes that see clearly where this country is headed and I don’t want it to go there.

          • World Traveller

            Christian huh ? Alabama candidate was an eyeopener for christian values; Indeed, people of your age rallied,voted,supported.
            #metoo ‘surge’ clearly shows how deep rooted (rotted) values are in every profession of a ‘developed’ country has.
            No other country (eh,developing ?) has a Gunshooting problem like yours; except a developing country has sent mission to mars, moon with a miniscule$ of what a developed country spends on a sci-fi movie.

            your prejudice indicates racism, ageism sans wisdom, maturity.
            most of you folks are ignorant,dumb.Go, get a life and expand horizons !

          • old white

            I agree that the h1-b program is being abused. But the US is a country for white christians? Really? I think some native americans might take issue with that. Shall we all just go back where we came from? I grew up in the SF Bay Area and have always enjoyed the diversity, but the h1-b program needs to be reformed so that only the truly exceptional candidates are accepted. I’ve been laid off 3 times in the last 10 years and my salary has shrunk by 30%. Basic economics tells me this is not indicative of a shortage of available talent. We’re all being played by greedy ceos.

          • Stephen Van Osdell

            Dev, I see you are typical. When challenged you resort to ad-hominem attacks. You also reach into your little brainwashing liberal bag of typical topics (when you have no facts to present) and toss them out to see if any might stick! Well, this Christian person is not buying ANY of the garbage you are regurgitating! But I will address them if I can weed through your ‘texting’ style of English grammar which you murder.

            1. Gunshooting? Big Falacy. Statistics show that I’m safer here than in India and many other countries where weapons are banned. It doesn’t matter whether you get killed by knife or bullet, or in a rare mass shooting or by multiple individual attacks – the same number of people end up dead. Besides, gunpowder ensures freedom and I don’t see that much quality of life in India or else I guess you wouldn’t want to be running away from such a haven would you?

            2. I lived in this country in the 50s and 60s and 70s, you didn’t (probably). Life was MUCH better here during that time. Even during our depression, most people held on to their personal pride despite being dirt poor. Poor didn’t equate with being trashy and low class. There were traditions and young people respected their elders. Today we have video game playing millennials who are in a class of their own and have very few values. I can easily discern that there are high odds you are a millennial due to the way you ‘get nasty’ when challenged in a debate. Very immature and short-sighted reaction even though it sure seems that many Indians sure seem to like this country that Christians put together over 200 years ago.

            American Indians? yes, there are some sad stories around this. But, honestly, are we the ONLY country which took land by force from others who lived on it before? Did sacred India and China always exist as they are today? Of course not – your history is full of accounts of mighty battles. Who were you fighting? You had to be fighting someone so you could take something from them if they lost right?

            Roy Moore? Boy, you had to reach way down for this one. You, like all young liberals, totally believe anything that a conservative Christian is accused of, while at the same time caring less and unconcerned with even greater atrocities and accusations against your liberal ‘enlightened’ ones. Bill Clinton raped women and flies on the Lolita Express to special ‘pleasure island’ with Epstein to have sex with children and that’s okay and you turn the other way and ignore it. So don’t give me your Hindi holier than thou crap! There are bad apples everywhere and in every religion, but that doesn’t make true followers all bad.

            GROW UP and yes, please go back to India asap!

          • Buddy,
            One would expect someone of your age would have more wisdom. Using someone’s origin or color or religion as an argument is not wise.
            Still you are partially right. I am not native born, but never was and never will be on H1b.
            I am everything you wish for… white and quite handsome European with extraordinary ability. I myself compete with Indian engineers and it is not easy, but that is what makes me this good.
            I have seen and experienced both sides of the story and buddy, it is so hard to be Indian that I deeply respect what they are doing.
            There are big cultural differences, they are underpaid (all immigrants are) and yet they manage to push forward without complaining. Their children do great at school. They obey all the laws.
            Because they are all family people. They do it for their children. Isn’t that Christian value.
            There are things I find difficult when working with some Indians, but that also applies to me and you. What I am most interested in are results and they have results. Never heard that someone was paid for nothing, especially in US.
            If you don’t like what they are doing, you actually don’t like the system that you live in.
            You say you’d like to see more Europeans, but from personal experience I cannot recommend that path easily to any European. There are many good people from all over US telling me they are happy I’ve choose to come, but also there are some telling me to “get the f*** out of this country”. To my family too.
            You think it is easier because I’m “white”

            You don’t have any idea what are consequences of your doing. Reflecting hate against one group of people because of the problem they don’t cause will turn against you.

            You could use rest of your time to travel, meet new people. It could help you see better how to help your local community and your children.

          • Stephen Van Osdell

            Mr. Dev,

            First, you show no respect with calling me ‘Buddy’. Yes, I realize that you learned that this can be used in an insulting way. You know NOTHING about me, yet talk as if YOU are the giver of all knowledge and truth – in short, with very high arrogance.

            About me – I have a mechanical engineering degree and after college I joined the Navy and became a Naval Aviator (officer). After the Navy I went to work with Martin Marietta Aerospace on the space shuttle external fuel tank project. I manage a group which does performance engineering of software. My wife is foreign born and actually works here for a German owned company. You presume that I have not traveled anywhere. I wonder why you presume that? Probably more of your arrogance coming through I suppose. I’ve even been to India. I’ve traveled to quite a few places in Russia and Ukraine, Germany, Ireland, England, Italy, France, Czech Republic, Poland, and Thailand to name a few.

            Now that we have that out of the way…I know more than you think I know from your arrogant posts! If you are white European you obviously don’t care whether the white Anglo-Saxonian race survives or not, it seems. Or maybe you hope it doesn’t. I will assume that you are in the US working somehow. Why? Are there too many Muslims in Europe for you to stomach these days? If not, then there WILL be. Europe has been sacrificed – just a matter of a little more time and I’m sure you will love Europe even more. India? I said in my first post that I like Indian people overall. Yes, the ones that come here are of the higher societal and economic levels and tend to be ‘know it alls’ but can’t even explain much about their own Hindu religion when asked about it. They come here because their country is in a big mess and only getting worse. But, even these people actually practice the ‘caste’ class system (which I’ve mentioned before and you have ignored). They practice discrimination themselves against their own people and will not allow marriage between people of different socio-economic levels. Sorry, if you aren’t aware of this. You still have a WHOLE lot more to learn about how this world and its societies truly operate, I believe. But, I hope you and all the other liberal Europeans who have opened their gates to the Muslim flood really enjoy seeing how that turns out for your home countries! I’m sure you will like it! Enjoy.

          • @ Stephen Van Osdell

            I have never been, in my life, delibarately misinterpreted and misunderstood in such a way.

            My friends call me buddy. Your friends call you buddy. Now that is an insult?
            And why is compassion and Christian love for all people liberal. It is Christmas, you could use some Christmas spirit.

            With all due respect, I am not sure if you are delusional or just evil person. It is not because you detect the problem and talk about it. I agree there is a problem that has to be dealt with. That problem affects all regardless of their origin or sex. I agree that some standards have to be increased.
            But the way how you apply logic and make conclusions is similar to the worst time in German history. When one group of people was marked as the cause of all problems.
            You are born in a country that lost so many brave young man to defeat that mindset.
            What makes you so angry and full of hate that you are prepared to throw away everything that many died for defending.
            I am not the one who should be telling you this, but you do understand that there are people who are your friends even though they are very different. Who wants same for this country as you do, even though they are not born in it.
            And they all want to work together with you as they all would like to have, and dream for, better future for their children.
            First generation of immigrants suffers the most and don’t expect from them to forget everything that become part of them.
            But their children know only about this.

            Do you know that many immigrant children know American anthem and don’t know anthem of a country they are born in.

            You are complaining about arrangred marriages, but you do know there are some white people doing it too as part of their religion and origin.
            “Unfortunately” those marriages last longer than other ones. Not sure you should criticise that.

            I respect you as a person and everything you have done. But I’m trying to help you understand your way is not going to work for the best. Thinking that some hard working people are your enemies is not very productive. Competition is the base of capitalism and democracy.
            If you promote ideas that deny that, I’m not sure where it is going to.
            When you start to divide people by any criteria, it will only get worst.

          • Stephen Van Osdell

            Blah blah blah blah. All this ‘feel good’ stuff is giving me goose bumps down my legs! It is all so sweet and nice. Unfortunately for you, you haven’t learned that the world and its cultures DO NOT operate in your utopian way. I’m not going to waste anymore time with you. I’ve seen what the fake Ashkenazi Jews do and if you don’t then you are blind! Are all problems caused by them, no, but with their control of most media (both news and entertainment) they create an environment where traditional values and culture are berated and trashed. You haven’t said what country you are from, but I can make you a bet. You are probably much younger than I and therefore hopefully will live a lot longer than me. Down the road, when Europe is totally ruined by the Muslim invasion, I want you to remember my predictions. It will not take long – say another 20 years and Europe will be more Muslim than Christian with a total culture change and economic downfall. Watch and see. Then, you can go back to whatever European country you are from and love on them all you want! Oh, one more thing. I, NOT you, am native to this country… yet instead of learning something (about using the word buddy), you persist to tell me that you know better! WHAT ARROGANCE! Trust me, when someone you don’t know and have never met starts calling you ‘buddy’ or ‘bub’ or even ‘friend’ postings anywhere, especially when the two of your have been debating opposite viewpoints, it is taken as a snide insult! You can believe me or not, I really don’t care. I do know that in certain European countries, the people there are very arrogant overall (like Germany) and this might be your problem.

        • Stephen Van Osdell

          One other more minor point…. my wife is from Ukraine and we’ve been married over 15 years. She says that she would NEVER speak Russian to another Russian person (who obviously spoke English too) in public as it is considered very bad manners. Yet, people in India (and China) think nothing of jabbering on loudly to each other on the elevators, in the stairwells, in the cafeteria in mixed company, etc. Very bad etiquette. I guess you foreigners now feel like you ‘own’ the place right?

        • Stephen Van Osdell

          Before anyone else comments on this post, please preface your statement with the following:

          Are you native born American citizen?
          How many children have you raised and paid a fortune for their university educations?

          • old white

            I made the comments about native americans. I was born in Colorado, raised 3 kids in California, and yes, paid exorbitantly to get them educated and out in the world. And it makes me sad that they will probably have to work harder than I ever did to have the same things. But all this cannot be blamed on immigrants. I’ve already said the H1b program needs to be revised. But have you taken Amtrak recently, bought anything shipped by rail? You know the tracks were laid by Chinese immigrants. And what about the Filipinos who fought along side us in WWII? The southeast Asians who fought with us in the Vietnam war? And the translators from Afghanistan and Iraq who save our soldiers’ lives? The hispanics who pick your fruit and vegetables, slaughter your chickens? Send them all back because this is a ‘white christian nation’? Sorry can’t go there. The 1950’s and early 1960’s were a lovely little bubble for white folks in the US. It was possible for one working parent to support a family with a middle class lifestyle. But this was because the rest of the world was devastated by WWII. It was never going to last. If we work at it, our diversity will be our strength.

          • Stephen Van Osdell

            Resp to OldWhite….Actually, I’d go back to any time in this country prior to the Vietnam war. Yes, there are, and were, people in this country from other countries and they did work here. To my knowledge, all of them but blacks came here willingly to escape even worse conditions in the own countries. Are we to blame for conditions in their own countries? No, of course not. But, they were a very small percentage. Compare that to Europe now committing national suicide by opening their doors to middle eastern Muslim migrants! Europe as we’ve known it is OVER… as in DONE… as in Gone with the Wind! I promise you that. I guess what I’m trying to say is this…I don’t mind people from other countries coming here… my wife is from Ukraine. But our culture here and their culture there are very very similar – probably more so that our culture compared to German culture. I don’t want to see the white race breed out of existence either, but that seems what the ‘elite’ puppet masters want. Read the Barcelona Agreement of 1995. Europe was sacrificed there! Basically, people should be given permission to come here and work when we don’t have enough educated people here, NOT because foreigners can be had for cheaper. Also, we need direct immigration from educated people who can contribute to this society. People who apply for and are granted complete permanent immigration rights. What we have now is a ‘fake’ system where we grant worker visas, and some percentage (high percentage) of them never go back. This isn’t right. This is immigration by deception and it lacks control and throttling. Also, look, people in this country didn’t just go to church in the 1950 and 60s (I’m 68). There was an economic bubble, but not a moral bubble. We have standards then and social morays and all those are OUT the window now. My father born in 1914 lived through the depression in the south. Let me tell you those were some hard times. He recalls people knocking on their back door and asking for food or to sleep in their barn. He said if depression happened today (in 1984 before he died) they’d be knocking you in the head and taking all the have! YOU KNOW that is even more true today! What has happened? Black people I knew growing up went to church and raised nice families. What happened to them? That isn’t what is happening today I can assure you (overall of course). We had mafia and they had full machine guns, but they only shot each other and no one ever shot up a school yard with a machine gun! What has happened? Kids used to roam the neighborhoods and play hide and seek at night and ride bikes to school, but can’t now. What changed? It wasn’t economics. My neighborhood was old houses built in 20’s with space heaters. Yes, only my father worked, but we were lower middle class at best as he worked in a refinery. So, what has changed? Liberalism took over, God kicked out, anything goes society, rights for every weirdo, etc, etc. That is what happened and when I retire I’m leaving this country probably next year. I’m too disgusted at what I see happening to stay. Progressive Liberals are more dangerous than Communists – even though they are usually one in the same.

      • In regards to your comments about inter caste marriages in India, this might be an issue in rural India but a lot has been changing in urban India. This is a menace and will indeed go away with due course of time. The British promoted the casteism through their administrative policies. Christian Europeans who formed this nation came here in search of better lives only like people from thirld world countries do. By the way what about the Jews in this country? Do you (german-origin) and your Ukranian wife have issues with them too?

    • Working long hours for cheaper wages, work ethics etc. How is this different from modern form of slavery? All H-1b visas are doing is keeping the wages to a minimum for more work. Next thing you know, there will be people from more poorer nations working for lower then that. We don’t need H-1b visas and companies can move if they want. This is a country of innovation. And, We want to keep jobs for our citizens first.

  9. Stephen Van Osdell

    It is ABOUT TIME!! I’m about to retire from an IT position, and my company hires hundreds of these H4 visa wives, as well as a lot of H!B visa holders. It is WRONG. We American parents spend a literal fortune getting our kids a college education and then when they graduate, they can’t easily find jobs because the market is flooded by the affluent Indian population who get inexpensive degrees in India and then come here to ‘seek their fortune’ for a much cheaper price. Talk about ‘chain migration’? This H4 spousal visa program is no different and a prime example of chain migration. These couples come here usually newly married and with no children. I see these young Indian wives standing in front of our elevators and most all are pregnant or have been since arriving here. This H4 spousal visa needs to be STOPPED! btw, my wife is from Ukraine and we’ve been married for 15 years. When we were dating, she could NOT even get a tourist visa to come here and visit me from our embassy! She was told she was too pretty and might not return! This is a common practice by our embassies in Ukraine and Russia. After we got married (in Ukraine) it took another 6 months for our Homeland Security to grant her a visa to come here! But, then we turn around and allow wives of H1b holders to ‘come on over’. I joked with my wife before we were married and told her that it was going to be difficult to get her a visa. She asked why? I told her ‘because you have 3 things working against you – you are educated, pretty, and white!’

  10. I have managed H1-Bs, and many of them are extremely bright and good people. It’s really not the fault of the individuals caught up in this system, but the system itself is so flawed that it needs to be eliminated.

    Companies use Indian contracting companies to cook the books: if IT is replaced by onshore or offshore contractors, they don’t appear in calculations of profit per employee. Ignorant board members are impressed by the misleading numbers, allowing CEOs to solidify their power base.

    Contracting companies nod and agree with any idea, and will happily supply bodies to keep antique hardware and systems going (badly). The workers are trained by their peers in Bangalore etc. to do this dirty work, since formal education for these systems no longer exists. The fact that the systems become unintelligible and crash constantly justifies more headcount for the contractor.

    Ten years ago when the IT managers lost the battle with project managers and were fired, the “resources” being hired from offshore started to self-manage. This way, our project managers could (they imagined) remote-control IT work and hope for the best.

    The Indian workers we see here are selected from a gigantic pool of candidates in India vying for these jobs; they tend to be highly educated. Some receive education in the US, then pick up jobs with the contracting companies. The spouses are unfortunately caught up in this broken system, and cannot work. Many are trying to make enough cash to return to India and afford a house, others are trying to stay in the US.

  11. Shipra Upadhyay

    The move let H4B be authorized to work was/is wrong. They compete for jobs not only with US citizens but all other categories with no merit. If they are qualified , they should file for H1B. Technically with this program, H4B candidates have more flexibility than their spouse on H1B I.e not limited to industry they work on etc.

    As someone else stated earlier, H1B’s are absued to certain extent. The employers know the candidate does not have a choice until they get their greencard and are free to live their lives.

    In general Indians are hard worker but as someone(Indian) above indicated they are flexible ya da ya da. Mind it they are hardworking and overly flexible because they don’t have a choice so I would suggest Indians don’t use that as a strength and talk down others who like to take vacation which is provided by their company. Indians who are on H1B don’t take much vacation because they are too afraid that they may lose their job and they need to save money if that was the case because they won’t get unemployment and need to leave the country.

    Overall, the immigration system needs a overhaul. They need to make sure H1Bs are truly qualified and are praised fairly. It would make the lives of US citizen and foreign nationals.

    Oh before I forget , I agree it’s very rude for other to speak in regional language in group setting. I think it’s more personality vs cultural. These are people who will never essimilate due to lack of self awareness and respect for other around them.

    An educated Indian professional who loves USA and proud to be here

    • Shipra you made some relevant points like H1Bs can’t take long leaves , speaking in your language is not good etiquette etc . I am surprised at how you’ve painted all H1Bs with the same brush by saying they don’t have merit. Im on H4 EAD. I’m a Harvard graduate with 10 years of work experience in multi national companies in India in leadership positions in non IT roles. You have NO idea of how hard my journey has been. Me and My spouse , also from an Ivy League , wished to stay back in the US so that we both could pay back the hefty education loans we had incurred studying at these US ivy schools. My husband and I worked very very hard to get this academic success and payback to the US by putting our best food forward at work. We have a lot of gratitude and respect for America.

      About your point on getting an H1B, It’s NOT easy to get an H1B visa – atleast wasn’t for me. It’s certainly NOT easy to find a co. that sponsors a non IT job applicant and also many don’t tend to get the lottery . I also didn’t get an OPT because I wasn’t on a student visa for long.

      H4 EAD gave me a chance to work , earn and save to pay back my education loan and manage living expenses. It also helps in paying for my children’s pre school.

      I know many highly educated and qualified spouses like me whose situation is misunderstood . It’s great that spouses of several other visa types like L1, J etc are allowed to work ; this needs to be done for highly skilled H1b spouses too.

      I have always thought of USA as the land innovation and best in class work. The diversity of thought, backgrounds and experiences gives it a unique edge over other developed countries. Bright , hardworking and talented immigrants along with many bright Americans make it happen.

      I wish this is considered before making any policy changes to H1B or H4 EAD.

  12. First of all, I am an American citizen. What are you people complaining about? You bring up religion, lack of jobs, low pay. Americans have gotten lazy. parents (give) there kids everything. Our kids do not know how to work, they do not want to work (generalization)We have lost worth ethics, customer service, and general respect. Stop all immigration, correct our problems, then start again. It does not matter what someone’s religion, except the ones that want to kill Americans. What matters is. When are we going to work for what we want. People want everything handed to them. Noone is entitled. The days when people worked for what they had, are gone. We need to get off our butts, work for these jobs, work hard. Stop companies from hiring cheaper labor. No tax breaks for hiring out of US, but Americans have got to get their pride back, be proud of the work you do, stay educated. Stop raising spoiled brats. Stop ruining them by not letting them work for what they get, they are not learning the basics of survival. One last thing, I am so tired of trying to speak to someone I can not understand.

  13. It’s far more complicated than it seems:
    More foreign workers, more money and growth for companies, America stays ahead in the game but hurts American workers

    Less foreign workers, more jobs for Americans? Maybe not, as all the tech giants have big overseas offices too and they can just start doing majority of their projects from their overseas offices and just have their American counterparts to do jobs which are hard to be outsourced. In this case the companies will make even more money and there would be lesser jobs for Americans.

    If the US govt puts some regulations on the no. of outsourced jobs on these tech companies then these companies will eventually move their headquarters in foreign countries. Take Singapore and Hong kong as examples. All this is not easy but it is a possibility.

  14. I am an Indian and yes even I feel h4 work authorization should be stopped and h1 Be should be given to someone who really have exceptional skill set. H1 is abused true, cos I my self have seen so many incompetent h1 who have just managed to get the job and doing it. But trust me most of h1 wants to earn money and go back but after staying in Usa life style for a while no one wants to go back. And I have seen many channges their life style more towards American, if you feel that we are trying destroy American life style then it’s worng.

  15. H1B holder here.

    I do a high skill job. Most h1bs do not. There’s no guarantees that, like their spouses, h4 holders are highly skilled.

    This must be fixed: H1B should be used for highly skilled people, not low level IT. H4 should not be allowed to work until they get a green card.

    Both changes would make everything better. Low skill tech jobs would have to be done by Americans. H1B spouses would not generate local inflation by increasing the number of double income households neither steal American jobs while depressing wages (they have no LCA provision, so they can take whatever pay they give em).

  16. Anonymous

    I am on H1-B.. Yes, I agree that this programme is being abused by some greedy Indian IT companies which should stop. H1-B spouses(H4) are equally talented and deserve to have a career. Women, especially from India have been through a lot to reach the stage they are In, only hope which brings them here to the US is H4EAD where they can freely explore their career. Impose some strict rules on where and what they can work on but removing the programme will hurt them a lot. I will not agree with most of the comments above. We are not dumb people and we too struggle a lot to get a college degree. Imagine competing with 200000 people for the best 1000 seats that are available. It’s not as easy as you think and please do not generalize. Yes there are problems in India, that is why we are here in the US. When this nation too behaves like a third world nation then what is the difference between Developing country and a developed country. I personally feel h4 ead is a good opportunity for the spouses of h1b and it should not be stopped. It is a wrong perception that getting a college degree is cheap in India, yes it is cheaper compared to the US but for the amount that people earn in India it is not cheap. Atleast it was not cheap, my parents had to take a loan to pay for my college education.

  17. Only one thing i want to says ..all American companies exporting each n everything from china, where all blue colors people employed American paying each cents from his pockets and no employment generated and American companies are totally dependent on china and growing china economy and America economy.where as H1b workers have to pay for everything to stay in America to grow America in every where ..housings,tourism,insurance,retails ,pay taxes deduct social security which they will never get.Currently we are in the fast changing world where borders has no meaning…Blue color jobs can be done by anyone but IT jobs needs education and mental pressures.Try to bring back blue color jobs where u can employ more people and grow your economy

  18. America is the country of migration.Every one is migrated ,some long back some early..America gave opportunity to everyone.Do not fight on religion,color or country..We are the beautiful creatures of GOD..We should work together and Make America Great again..Do not fight h1b like issue .there are tons of jobs coming in cloud,IOT, new technology

  19. Throw out the H1B slaves and their spouses. They steal American jobs and are not up to the speed on the English language. They talk in their native language at work to exclude the US citizens from understanding what they are saying.

  20. Dear all ,

    Am an Indian I concur on most of the conversations said by Americans in this particular context. However, I would like to say that stream lining the process is important rather than rescinding or removing completely. Every systems has lacunae fixing those are vital rather than sniveling against each other. I completely dissuade such “vocal wars ” may be there are few people who are misusing the program, but everyone not the same. DHS already started working on such institutions without prejudice protecting indigenous people and keeping Americans first.

    The bottom line is fixing the system is important streamlining the process is essential. Happy Christmas folks ..!

  21. I love USA , people , culture, rules ,system. My husband is legal immigrant on H1. We both are educated, pay taxes, follow rules. I got married and came here on H4 thought there should be or will be some Civic right for spouse as well like other countries do for immigrant spouses. But surprising it was not like a situation I spend almost four years at home. Got pregnant n stucked again. Thought of going back but never happened in mean Time. I suddenly got Ray of hope that I can do some work if not what’s the reason of this life ? Depressed .Now Happy doing work.After this kind of rule changing rule so many life’s are’s hard to survive on single income for H1..if you are welcoming immigrant for your purpose don’t throw them after using it for a while in the middle.instead they should focus on illegal immigrantwhT is our crime? Is keeping family together a crime? Not able to work, no SSN, no identity ,be in cage, is this visa is designed for animals? They should allow work permit from day 1 like for all visas they do and for All legal immigrant spouses they are welcoming in the country. Work permit is just like food, cloth and shelter. Only certain spouses can able to work who are in queue for future residents that also they want to take away. Is it fair? Justice? Women global empowerment?
    How can spouse sit idle for such a long when GC takes decades to come? I believe smart country ,smart people should make smart decision. Unlike other visas, or other countries h4 visa is worst. It is like killing of humans you can say women’s as 80 % h4 are women. I would like to mention one thing how can certain set of spouses n workers steal the jobs when there are n number of opportunities for citizens? Imagine being at our place we are stuck in the middle , it affects so many lives. on the other side I agree lot of abused happened but its not our fault, why we are getting punished? Why everytime only h4? We are legal, loyal residents, its our right .

  22. Does the law says that H4 or H1 candidate can skip the interview process ? I am pretty sure many of the interviewers hiring them are American Citizens themselves, so please go ahead scrutinize them hard. However, Why to take away their right to compete in free world ?

    Secondly, If corporates are fooling around labor laws and taking advantage of H1Bs to cut down the labor rates then yeah sure go hard at corporates, challenge their books. It makes them guilty not H1s/H4s.

    Well, if you go deep into the technicalities of the issue then you will understand that problem is just for Indian H4 spouses (most of them women) because of Green Card Backlogs, which inturn is because of broken immigration policies. There are many proposed bills pending to make it merit based but all in vain. So, H4s are just victim of a showcase battle being fought to attract american votes.

  23. I am a H-1B worker making 450k a year. Been in the US for 8 years now. I am still on H-1B because the Green Card rules are outdated. I have a family here – want to buy a house some day. How do I do that if there is no stability on the visa front? I can go back to my home country and keep my title and salary, but the time difference is going to kill the productivity of my team. When I got H-1B 8 years ago, I only wanted to be a temporary tech worker. But then life happened and my wife also works here on her own H-1B making 425k a year. If the USA repeals the H-1B program or doesn’t ammend the Green Card laws soon, then we will both go back to my home country. But do you think this is fair to me or my wife?

  24. John Smith

    Look people this is America. You’re supposed to not complain and compete if you are losing your job or business. With the explosion of the tech industry how can all these H1B Indian workers be WORSE than US workers? The results indicate they are clearly good at the jobs they’re doing. Capitalism bitches!

  25. Man is a social animal. He need another man support for generations. Everything until now happened for a reason.

    Yes it deviated its track. Little measures will help.

    Talking about a race, age, sex, nationality, tradition, a country and it’s constitution, life styles all this will end up in reality finally. Which is need of fresh and skilled talents every year. Lets fight against fraud and wanting of lots of experience from an individual by SYSTEM of COMPANIES. Not against a person or a company. But system of that company. Freshers need to be encouraged in every field.

    But reality is, definitely, world wide, nfresh skilled staff are always in need for a good change apart of their origin. They are always respected. That will never stop. ETERNAL….

  26. Reality is all about chase towards fresh talents but not towards a race, origin, or any nationality.
    For generations, need of people having good innovative knowledge is always a constant one.
    Problem is requirement of a person with lot of experience instead Of knowledge. Lets talk against to system of a company but not people.

    H4 EAD can be modified in such a way that, to get an EAD, they need to study and then apply.
    Please open the gate for remaining subjects like biosciences ,statistics , arts, business. This stops over flow of aspirants towards IT. This won’t hurt any nation. Because not every one come and work. Only the person who strive for true knowledge will come up apart of any origin.

  27. Reality is all about chase towards fresh talents but not towards a race, origin, or any nationality.
    For generations, need of people having good innovative knowledge is always a constant one.
    Problem is requirement of a person with lot of experience instead Of knowledge. Lets talk against to system of a company but not people.

    H4 EAD can be modified in such a way that, to get an EAD, they need to study and then apply.
    Please open the gate for remaining subjects like biosciences ,statistics , arts, business. This stops over flow of aspirants towards IT. This won’t hurt any nation. Because not every one come and work. Only the person who strive for true knowledge will come up apart of any origin.

  28. Please open gates for remaining subjects like business, biosciences, statistics for H4 EAD by placing a condition that they need to study here. This won’t hurt much to nation as the filtering will happen. Not every one can do this. Instead Removing complete rule, please encourage people to study here. As there is a pause for new h1 entry, or reduction of no of h1 to US, there exist no over flow of applicants to IT industry.

  29. Just went through Stephen van oswell’s comments above .. Such racism , false ego , false pride , so much venom against fellow earthlings. Calls himself a Christian .. Jesus Christ must be ashamed of such people calling themselves Christians. Judging people , insulting them .. are these the values Christianity propagates ? Such people are responsible for nothing but shaming Christianity. Love thy neighbor as thy self .. did Jesus Christ meant this literally for only your neighbor .. did you ever consider the deep rooted meanings of the teachings of that beautiful pure hearted son of god who taught to love everyone equally. And what is the matter of pride with your English and being a grammar nazi .. did you know most of the Indians on an average can speak and read at least 4 launguages. What’s the big deal ? Languages are for communication and not to show off your skill set of being a superior being ! So in the name of god .. learn how to behave with people .. your years of experience is not coming into play to make you a humble and a better person it seems .. but it’s never late to start !

  30. Indians are just good in papers (resume) and good in interviews but has a very bad working ethics, lazy and just all talk… one of the reason why these indians are hired in IT, is because the interviewers are also indians.. they only hire indians as well. Companies should put non-indians in hiring an employee to prevent bias selection process and go to the real selection process based on experience and not because they are just both indians.

  31. Ashtosh sharms

    Indians are just good in papers (resume) and good in interviews but has a very bad working ethics, lazy and just all talk… one of the reason why these indians are hired in IT, is because the interviewers are also indians.. they only hire indians as well. Companies should put non-indians in hiring an employee to prevent bias selection process and go to the real selection process based on experience and not because they are just both indians…

  32. Stephen @ 8:43. Please don’t blame your moral’s going down your culture’s going down everything on indian/ immigration. You are missing your old times and i can certainly understand that but don’t blame everything on indian. World has changed. Technolgy developed , every change whether you like it or not is reality you cannot go back in times what you had lived. Think like a wise old man what you look like but emotions had curtained the acceptance to changes. How kids are in society today is not in indian immigrant hands. We come here because we get paid. India is not empty. people are living there and are happy, we had lived our lives there what we had gained from is strong foundation to flourish anywhere and we will be more then happy to go back and work and live and can manage our lives the same way we are managing here because our foundation is strong.Everyone likes oppurthnities. So do we. And we are here not to change anything. It is you who can impact coming generations not us. Stop worrying about what indian has in their hands focus on what you have. Oppurtunities comes to better and they came. This not a century when people travelled on wagons and lived on poultry and farms. This is technology era. You still live in some old timea.Change and expansion is the only law what this universe is build and made on boundaries is not the law set by GOD the mighty. You cannot change these laws. Also dinosaurs are extinct one day we all will. We are just part of this big change accept it. I am indian my english is the way it is. Been in IT since 15 years. Served this industry with proud and will keep doing that no matter it takes me. I was happy when i lived in 33 years I am happy since 3 years in US will be happy if gone back. I am with change and love it.

  33. George P Tyrebyter

    When you don’t understand the visa, you write stuff like this article. The work authorizations for H-4 were created by Obama’s signature. It is not a valid work visa. Trump is simply not extending it. This is clear unless you don’t really understand the whole issue, like the author.