Tech Workers Wary, Industry Hopeful on H-1B Proposal

Tech industry groups are cautiously optimistic and tech workers are wary of the immigration reform bill introduced in the U.S. Senate this week, which was released by its sponsoring “Gang of Eight” early Wednesday in all its 844-page glory.

Sample U.S. VisaOn Tuesday, Neil Ruiz, associate fellow and senior policy analyst at the Brookings Institution, told us prospects for the bill’s passage looked promising, though at that point he had seen only a 19-page summary of the legislation.

Among the wide-ranging bill’s provisions:

  • Raising the cap on the number of H-1B visas from 65,000 to 110,000 annually, with as many as 180,000 to be granted each year in the future.
  • Raising the number of additional visas specifically for STEM advanced-degree holders from U.S. schools to 25,000 from the current 20,000.
  • Requiring employers to pay higher wages for H-1B workers than under current law. (As now, they could not pay visa-holders more than the prevailing wage paid to native-born workers.)
  • Requiring “H-1B dependent employers” — those who employ a disproportionate number of guest workers — to pay significantly higher wages and fees than normal users of the program. At present, the dependent-employer threshold stands at 15 percent of total headcount. This was one of the requirements that Facebook took aim against in its lobbying.
  • Employers with 30 and 50 percent of their workforce made up of H-1B or L visa holders who do not have green-card petitions pending would pay an additional $5,000 fee per head.That fee would grow to $10,000 for employers with H-1Bs comprising 50 percent or more of its workforce.
  • Companies would be required to advertise H-1B positions on a Labor Department website for 30 days before filling the position with an H-1B applicant.
  • Increasing the allotment of green cards.
  • Creating a “startup visa” for foreign entrepreneurs.
  • Moving toward a points-based merit system in the visa process to favor education and skills over family status.

“Of course the devil’s in the details,” observed Ron Hira, associate professor of public policy at the Rochester (N.Y.) Institute of Technology and a longtime critic of the H-1B program. “It says they’re going to raise wages substantially, but we don’t know how much. That’s a real key issue, that the wage floor is too low for H-1Bs, in my point of view.”

“I think it’s going to impact a subset of outsourcing firms, like Cognizant and Tata, while leaving others like IBM, Accenture and Deloitte unscathed,” he continued. “IBM, even though they’re importing lots and lots of H-1Bs and have more workers in India than they do in the U.S., still has less than 50 percent (of total employees being visa holders).”

“I think it’s a move in the right direction, but I think it’s not going to fix … the pretty obvious problems with the H-1B undercutting American workers.” Hira called the proposed increase in green cards “generous,” but considers other provisions to be a view into IT-company lobbying.

“The increase in advanced-degree holders is from 20K to 25K, but they push for the base cap to go from 65K to 110K,” he said. “You would think from the rhetoric from the industry that [advanced degrees] are what they want, but I think what you’re seeing is what they’re really lobbying for.” He calls the industry’s suggestion that foreign STEM graduates are often forced to leave the country after graduating “is more of a bait-and-switch than anything.”

The Industry’s View

On the other side of the debate, Robert Hoffman, senior vice president of government relations for the Information Technology Industry Council says his organization likes the proposed shift from a family-based immigration system to one more focused on skills. The revamped approach, he says, “will focus it more on innovation and remaining competitive.”

Still, there’s a lot to digest in the measure’s H-1B provisions. Hoffman calls some of them “very strict,” so his group is working with members to determine their impact.

“Basically, we like some of the fundamentals. We like what we’ve seen on green cards. We certainly like trying to increase the numbers on H-1Bs and putting in some kind of market escalator. But there are a lot of requirements that require close examination before we say anything positive or negative.“

The Brooking Institution’s Ruiz thinks businesses might be concerned about the labor-market test that the bill would require before hiring H-1B holders, though he referred to the proposal as “market light.” The bill, he pointed out, would allow students to get into the queue for green cards, and focuses more on skills than country of origin.

“It’s a comprehensive approach. It seems very thoughtful,” he said of the bill, which was  hashed out to combine a couple of previous efforts. “On H-1Bs, it considers both business and labor interests —  to protect American workers and protect American businesses. For the Senate, this bill looks pretty workable ”

The Senate Judiciary Committee plans two days of hearings – Friday and Monday – before the bill goes to the Senate floor. Still one issue remains murky: How far apart the Senate’s approach will be from the House of Representatives’. As Hira points out, the House has a different perspective, and a range of different interest groups will be weighing in with its members.

166 Responses to “Tech Workers Wary, Industry Hopeful on H-1B Proposal”

  1. Assuming these are as expected, “Requiring “H-1B dependent employers” — those who employ a disproportionate number of guest workers — to pay significantly higher wages and fees than normal users of the program. At present, the dependent-employer threshold stands at 15 percent of total headcount.”
    This is essentially useless because it does nothing to help the displaced IT workers.
    The money should be used to increase the payments made to unemployed tech workers so that the pittance of unemployment amounts are increased to pay something closer to the cost of living.

    • yurakm1

      Technical companies usually pay recruiters one month salary of hired employees. Financial services companies usually pay 3 months salary.

      Assuming that a strong, experienced programmer makes something like $120k/year, companies are willing to pay something between $10k to $30k to recruiters who find such a developer.

      On the background, paying US government a $5k to $10k fee per an H1B employee, who will not leave the job for 3 to 6 years, is next to nothing. The company likely will pay much more to immigration lawyers.

      • H1 B visas are good for 2 years and they can be renew. I have talked to people from India who came that way earning mush less than the US counterparts. Once they have 5 years working here in the US then they apply for a permanent visa and usually switch to another company earning much more.

        I always have thought that visas H1 B should be replaced for permanent visas instead and in that way the individual contributes to the system but as usual, companies have a hold on those matters and Senators pass the bills which favors those companies….bunch of crooks really but people elected them so people must swallow the pill.

    • bluemountain184


      JC Penny is sort of going out of business as of right now.
      They just ousted their $18 million CEO who came from Apple, Inc. after losing money for many quarters.

    • James VanHorn

      That’s for sure! I have been out of work in this field since 2008 and the synergy of this H1-B Visa push and my over-50 age profile will make the job of shoe salesman the best opportunity to earn a living out side of mowing lawns

      • This whole CIR is a really BAD deal for the country. I’m sure many of you saw the segment on 60 Minutes some months ago where they interviewed out of work tech workers in Silicon Valley. It was estimated that there were at minimum 76,000 people out of work. These greedy business owner and the seedy politicians don’t care about the Americans workers, they only care about their profits and saving money by hiring foreigners that can barely communicate ..

  2. I have always been against H-1B Visas not only because goes against US workers but also because it favors the companies which always have ripped the profits. Also H-1B Visa holders do not pay into the system as they are guest workers and that favors companies. I think that Congress (bunch of gangsters) should grant permanent Visas instead of H-1B Visas so the guest worker becomes part of the system paying into Social Security, Medicare, etc. That also would favor guest workers as they would earn the same wages as US workers; everything should be fair in the game. If companies do not like that idea because they would dish out more money for salaries and benefits then they can go to India 100%.

      • Yes, that is what I heard (ss+medicare wages)…but it still doesn’t help if you’re unemployed due to companies sending jobs to foreigners on the premise that we don’t exist.

        • I don’t blame the guest workers for the H1-B abuses, I blame the employers looking for yet another way to drive down wages. I also have to agree with your false shortage argument. I keep hearing “not enough skilled workers” at the same time when companies refuse to train from within and education costs are skyrocketing. I’m still dealing with 50K of student debt from over 10 years ago and I’m not in default either.

          We’re out there and we’re willing but for corporate America we’re just “too expensive”. Yeah, when the average CEO’s salary is over 300 times their average employee I have to question their math.

          Welcome to the Corporatocracy – By the way it leads to fascism, check 1939 Germany for an example.

          • AppleHead

            Sometimes I want to tell people not to go for degrees or masters if they have to take out loans for them. It only benefits the banks in the end. You can’t even get rid of it with a bankruptcy. If there is no job, why go in debt?

            The Universities are going to be much poorer in the future – hence the banks will have to find some other way to fleece people.

          • bluemountain184


            I used to attend a university where almost all of their students are from India (This is a reputable public university in Northern California.).
            Many public universities’ STEM graduate programs are totally dependent on foreign students.

        • Yes Pam, and the rotten, inept, greedy, power hungry politicians are always willing to work with their cohorts in these companies to sell out their own citizens.. There should NOT be one foreigner working in America, until every American is working.. With millions of Americans out of work, how can they honestly and say there is a shortage of workers.. They”re all liars and traitors.

      • I just did the search about taxes on H1B visas an the such and you are correct. One of the links is the following:

        If that is the case, H1 B workers are being screw by the Federal and State government and companies should recompense for that as they won’t see any profits later on and again that is our government…a bunch of crooks! If we need those workers because of their background and know how…they should be rewarded instead of being screw.

        Thanks for the update on those visas.

    • What are you talking about?! As an h1b worker I pay ss Medicare etc etc. if I lose my job I go home without any unemployment benefits.
      As much as I want to empathize with you folks I’ve been in the USA for the past 6 years. Switched companies 3x and get the normal 6 figure salary I.t. People get with the added restrictions that come with having this crappy visa.
      So how have I been able to land jobs using this restrictive visa that needs to be sponsored everytime I switch jobs if there are not enough jobs for skilled people?!
      I cannot get federal jobs, I cannot get jobs that are not in line with my “skill”, I cannot pay for my own sponsorship(company has to pay).
      I am at a great disadvantage compared to u.s citizens and yet I’ve gotten job after job.

      • >”I am at a great disadvantage compared to u.s citizens and yet I’ve gotten job after job.”
        the answer is simple: you get preferential treatment as an H1B visa holder.
        BTW…how are you getting six figures…I’m guessing that I have way more skill than you and the only jobs I can get want to pay in the 70s in San Diego. You must be in the Bay area…if not, there are plenty of people who can likely do the job at less pay.

        • How you can guess you have more skills than him? Based on what?
          I’m also on the 6 figures salary, I just got my green card and I’ve been on H1-B for 10 years.
          Oh, I’m not from the bay area not even from CA, I’m from NJ.

          Probably the reality is, you have no skills at all and you blame the system, or the visas program for your inability to grow on your work.

          • Very simple…I have 30 years experience in almost every industry and know just about everything that is needed for the majority of jobs that I look at. I also teach on the side and see what skills are needed and teach those skills to my students.
            I stay on top of the industry and do many things on the side to ensure that I have sufficient skills to handle virtually anything that comes along…I go on lots of interviews and get to the final rounds, only to never get that call back in the end.
            The main skill I’m missing is marketing, but a great company should be able to see through that and realize that I’m their most valuable asset (as every company I ever worked at found out when I left.)

            I know .NET (expert level), I know Java (advanced level), I know DBs (expert level), I know Web (advanced level), I know design better than most of the “designers” that I work with, I can teach, and I’m learning phone apps. I’ve also been an IT manager so it’s not like I have no skills. I can also talk to people in a way that they understand (which is often lacking in foreigners (who come to this culture that they don’t know)…oh, and I can spell (which both foreigners and Americans seem to have trouble with.) (Nice to see that you have apparently adapted well…I commend you.)

            So what did I miss? Any company looking at my resume is probably afraid that I’ll cost too much, but I’d welcome a salary in the 100K range with benefits.

        • @ ROBS – I’m in the exact same boat as you – been there, done that – since the birth of IT and CANT get a job – and would also welcome a Job for $100K @ 30+ years Corporate (Solid IT Financial) expertise – the dummies in corporate can’t hire us due to intimidation and their own lack of security (i.e., experience), they’d rather mold a dummy than hire someone truly experienced –
          I’m writing a book about it – “Red White and POOR”
          In the final launch stages with Amazon – Digital Download…
          which also includes topics on Corporate America’s “outsourcing” policies which favor those Guest Workers originally hired for $25K who (Find Out) they can make $100K and go for it – taking American Jobs!!!

          I don’t care what anybody here says, every H1B issued takes “AWAY” a US American’s job – besides, having a H1B Guarantees you employment here (I’ve seen some resumes that have NO gaps in employment – NONE), as their “stay” is contingent upon employment!

          If our job market wasn’t so saturated with unqualified, mediocre-skilled individuals, people like us WOULD get hired!

          • I look forward to seeing your book. Mine is here on Libre Office:

            I’m now working on one for writing MS Office Macros that apply to all applications (including Outlook and Powerpoint plus the usual Word and Excel)…hopefully ready by summer. Oh, but wait…someone said I had no skill…I guess the readers of my books can judge for themselves.

          • I totally agree with you on this. I am in the same boat as you, but in a much worse position than most of you. I am also considering writing about this issue. While I originally immigrated from India, I am a US citizen of many years. I came here when I was very young, worked as cashier and some similar types of jobs to put myself through college, got my degree from a US university, worked for Aerospace companies for NASA for years, then moved to commercial industry and eventually became unemployed due to outsourcing. These jobs went abroad unfortunately, mostly to the country where I was born and to those people who are from the same country. All of these facts give me gut wrenching feeling – people from the same country where I was born look at me as an outsider while many fellow Americans look at me skeptically since I am originally from India. I am not accepted in any group when it comes to this issue. However, I think of myself as an American and am strongly opposed to the steady leakage of jobs away from Americans for the benefit of profit maximizing corporations, exacerbating the long term unemployment of large segments of our population. I have suffered an enormous degree of lifestyle change because of this outsourcing and H1-B visas and it’s a topic I spend much time thinking about.

        • I do not get preferential treatment.
          I have less opportunities vs u.s citizens.
          I live in the Washington, D.C. Area.
          I cannot get into 90% of the jobs here since they require u.s. citizenship for federal jobs and security clearance jobs.
          I guess San Diego is a less expensive area.
          You get more sun if that’s a consolation!

          • Cost of living in San Diego is comparable to DC and Jersey, but less than SF/Bay and NYC. I think I heard that the Cost of Living here is in the top 6 highest in the country, but the wages tend to be 20% less than L.A., D.C, Chicago. yes, the “sunshine” tax.
            We have a very heavy computer industry (top 3 in the country).
            And maybe you don’t get preferential treatment in DC, but out here I’ve seen it over and over and many companies where I’ve worked in the last 10 years. It sucks when you train people to take over your job then they job that was succeeding suddenly fails because of the replacements who simply don’t understand how to do things (or so I’m told by some former co-workers.)
            Seems that if you want a job, you should come here and maybe I should go there to get a better one.

      • You have a job that pays 6-figures and you’re at a disadvantage compared to US Citizens who can’t get a job in your field?

        Btw, all US Citizens who are UE in IT looking for work can’t collect SS and most are not collecting UI.

        • JAMES….Totally true! I am down to my last 5 weeks of extended unemployment. 25 years in IT and then tried to change careers for a few years (successfully while doing it) in Health Physics (because trying to get another IT job wasn’t working).

          Never have seen anything close to 100K.

        • Yup I’m at a disadvantage. Company has to pay for my visa sponsorship which costs them a few thousand dollars.
          I’ve been here for 6 years so they had to pony up money for my green card sponsorship, another $5000 or so.
          Not all companies shoulder this even though they should. So far I’ve transferred twice without paying a single cent.
          So it turns out I’m slightly more expensive than the u.s. citizen.
          Which is why lots of companies automatically turn me down when they see I need sponsorship.
          They don’t want the expense nor the hassle of wrestling with the convoluted immigration laws the u.s. has.

      • Mike – lets take apart what the HB1 visa guy operates once over here.

        1. Indian managers frequently only go to lunch with other Indian workers and no one says anything about it.

        2. Indian managers prefer to work with only Indian consulting firms (the small body shops where money can be sent under the table to an account not showing up in an American bank – the skim)

        3. The H1B can put down on their resume that they worked at a certain company even when they have not if the manager is an Indian worker. (I know this from personal experience in interviewing them).

        4. The H1B can claim an educational background that can not be easily checked.

        5. If the H1B obtained his masters in Computer Science from the University of Kansas please know that the program up until 2009 was non-accredited for a Masters.

        But keep thinking that it is all about how Americans just don’t have the skills.

        • I have to side with you that a lot of h1bs blatantly lie on thier resumes.
          It’s awful.
          I wish there were stricter penalties on lying on your résumé.
          My old Indian employer was forcing me to change my resume which I refused to do.
          They even resorted to threatening me that they would send me back home if I did not change it.
          Told them that I would not lie and luckily got a job on actually 1 month. They would have sent me back home.
          Glad I got out of that company after 6 months!! Best day of my life.

          I understand your pain in training those awful h1bs with “masters degrees” and expert whatever skills. Had one of those. He couldn’t even login to a unix machine…. Aargh…

          Not all of us are like that though. Hopefully they enforce stricter checking of skills and employers report those unskilled, lying h1bs.

    • yurakm1

      Though you are wrong concerning taxes – H1B visa holders pay all of them – I agree that their status is demeaning.

      I saw how good, hard working colleagues moved between countries, for example US to UK and back, uprooting wifes and kids, after their visas expired. I mean people who continued to do the same job, remotely, because an international company where they work needed their skills and experience.

  3. This is not good for an American IT worker. This will help all the outsourcing companies to ship MORE HITECH jobs abroad. This will slow down the US Economy. As a IT worker for the past 20 years in the US, I had suffered to find a job when the visa cap was up to 110000. I landed a job when it was brought down to 65000. I am sure that whoever is sponsoring the bill is heavily “lobbied” by outsourcing companies. GOD BLESS USA…REALLY!!

    • Totally agreed , it is actually aimed at bringing more employees from other countries and also to claim a political victory.After this change probably no jobs will be available for Green Cards or Citizens in IT . They have find jobs in Walmart and KMart .Already for every guy who come in H1B into US supports offshore team of 5-25 members..You can estimate how much we shiped jobs outside US

    • Seamus. And we were arrogantly looking down at the blue collar labor workers and their unions thinking that we did not need one. Now look at us. No political power and jobs with diminishing wages assuming that you still have one.

    • “I am sure that whoever is sponsoring the bill is heavily “lobbied” by outsourcing companies. GOD BLESS USA…REALLY!!”

      I totally agree with you SEAMUS. “lobbied” by outsourcing companies is the key factor in driving all of us IT workers – US citizens out of IT field.

    • “I am sure that whoever is sponsoring the bill is heavily “lobbied” by outsourcing companies. GOD BLESS USA…REALLY!!”
      I totally agree with you SEAMUS. “lobbied” by outsourcing companies is the key factor in driving all of us IT workers – US citizens out of IT field.

  4. On the surface this appears to address at least one of the two biggest issues in being an IT worker. That is, the suppression of wages by abusing H1-B programs and workers. It could also stop the hemorrhaging of IT wages in general. At this point H1-B workers are being used by corporations like undocumented workers are abused by farmers.

    Still, I don’t hold out much faith that the profession is going to get any better. I applied to a pool store the other day…

  5. It seems pretty ridiculous in the middle of a US “jobless recovery”, with practically a generation of STEM graduates unemployed, to bring in so many more “guest workers.” These jobs are not “cutting-edge genius” jobs; and are basically taking good “normal” jobs from US citizens. There is already a visa system for luring in the next Linus Torvalds – this H1B scam is basically a bounty to drive down wages in already oversaturated areas of IT (DBAs, programmers etc)

    • bluemountain184

      ” with practically a generation of STEM graduates unemployed, to bring in so many more “guest workers.””

      You are correct on pretty much the entire generation of STEM graduates unemployed.
      The school I used to attend in (public university, Northern California), one class I took 6 years ago had 130 students in 2 sections.
      Now that class is down to 45 people with, of course, only 1 section.
      When I took it, most students were from India (86%, I know this because my east Asian friend did a counting of the student ethnic composition.) and I was one of the three white people who took the class (I got A- as a grade and completed the design project fully.).
      Even the undergraduate program has seen its enrollment reduced by 2/3 due to the fact that they now have only 1 section for mandatory classes (They used to have 3 sections for most mandatory classes.).
      There are no jobs for undergraduate students, hence people are leaving Electrical Engineering.
      U.S.-based hardware companies will start to lose to Asian companies in 10 to 15 years when the experienced older generation retires.

  6. Srikanth

    H1b and Employer based Green card (EB1,EB2,EB3..etc) in USA are purely meant for the employer benefit only. Only employees working under H1b and Green card in process for 10-15 years backlog waiting time only know what a bonded slavery it is to work for one employee for decades. During this process his/her dependents doesn’t get any work authorization inspite of having extraordinary skills unless they go through this expensive and lottery approval system. During this decades of waiting time employee should literally get to married to their employers if not they have to start the green card process all over again with new employer. Taking this as an advantage every dam employer make their fortunes and sell the H1b workers in the consulting market. In other words H1b employment in consulting firms is a white color prostitution. H1 worker works his ass off day and night and employer gets average 60% of his billing just because he(employer) holds his/her visa.

    Just increasing the number of h1’s makes more employers and attorneys get benefited. I personally feel the immigration should be purely based on the merit based just like canada,australia,new zealand.. that way the special skilled can stay focused and build the nation with great skills and creativity.. which in turn creates jobs for everyone.

  7. Seriously these is not going anywhere for students and workers who are green card holders or US citizens. Because they are the one who ends up working in either retail job or any other kind of labor work. Yes economy is saying that unemployment rate is going low but most of the people who is unemployed are US citizens or GCH. I think US should make a law the companies should hire GCH or US citizens first before hiring H-1Bs. Getting Masters or so call advance degree in now a day is like a piece of cake. Every other person has one.

  8. Rahul Sharma

    Seriously, This bill has to can a small IT firm survive ??…small firms
    with less than 500 employees shouldnt be asked to enforce these rules..
    as they cant meet margin and will close down.

    Small business need H1b more than big firms..which have already benefitted
    from last 15yrs of outsourcing.

    Note: Medium & Big firms its ok to charge $5000.00 extra for 50% rule..

    See BIG firms have grown a lot and benefitted but small firms need
    to be nurtured or you will have unequality just like Rich became richer and poor became poorer.

    Rahul Sharma
    San francisco “City by the Bay’

    • Your “small IT firm” will survive just fine when you decide to hire American citizens and green card holders instead of H1B visa holders. Stop outsourcing while reaping the benefits of this society and your entire issue with survival will be remediated.

  9. Employers use H1-Bs so that they can keep their costs low while displacing American workers. I am suprised that this is allowed at all. There should be 0 H1-Bs for several years, and then and only then when there is a need the H1-B program is returned.

    • I agree with you 100% but the American IT worker will not band together to force changes from Congress. I don’t care about Obama and Democrats or Republicans. They are all screwing us over so it really does not matter.

      This is very simple to me. If the politician is supporting the use of H1B visas, he is not looking out for my best interest. In fact, he is my enemy (economically and politically speaking).

      When will we band together and do something serious about this.

  10. bestbsatrainer

    Well, i have been closely following this entire H1B program for more than a decade. Pretty sure i read many a time that significant portion of H1B visa fee ( that is collected by USCIS) is actually set aside to train American work force; help those who want to enhance their technology skills. with millions of dollars funding available, is anyone ( i meant any American citizen) actually using that money?
    Are we still in the mind set of being American, all should go in our favor all the times even though world is changing ( has changed in fact, a lot) at a rapid pace?
    I believe we have great talent ( and education system at colleges) which just needs little more ramp up to meet the industry demands.

    • >”Pretty sure i read many a time that significant portion of H1B visa fee ( that is collected by USCIS) is actually set aside to train American work force; help those who want to enhance their technology skills.”
      Let’s see…there’s a talent of millions of people able to do the job; H1B visa people get preferential treatment leaving 100s of thousands out of work; H1B visa fees go toward training even more people to do the job, creating even more competition for even fewer jobs that will go to Americans….hmmm…and WHO’s paying for unemployment? The companies! I think that companies should wise up and realize that getting H1B visa candidate actually increases costs because of the extra fees for unemployment rates they pay.

  11. They can keep this up if they want to. Eventually, it will come back and bite them. They outsourced everything to China – now – when the Prime Minister of China tells George B. to get his behind to Olympics hosted in China, George has to go. Israel can’t do anything to Iran because China is backing them. All China has to do is call in all the debt that is owed to them and bye-bye US. Main point: their plotting and scheming for short term profit has turned them into slaves to another master.

    The same thing will happen with this H1B scenario. Not the exact same thing of course – but – probably something similar. US will no longer be seen as lead development/innovative country. That will be shifted to the east. In case they didn’t get the memo, the eastern countries are more self-contained. They don’t have to buy a dang thing from the US (esp. in China where they can just copy and sell). So, who will they then sell their high-priced goods to? Not US people, all the jobs needed to buy their crap were sent out of the country or became part of the programs they enable. Europe? Well, what if they decide to choose another trade partner?

    Do they ~really~ think that India will tow the line forever? Really? China didn’t.

  12. IF S.744 passes, the career prospects for American citizens (independent of their nation of birth) will shrivel up to a greater degree than the harms that were inflicted by the Immigration Act of 1990, which created the H-1B Visa program.

    This legislation, written by special interests, is focused on benefits to the special interests – and fails to provide benefits for the American middle class, as the enforcement provisions are set for future implementation, likely so that they may be watered down by the industry lobbyists, just as the enforcement provisions of the 1990 immigration act were. This piece of awful legislation should be strongly rejected by the American public, just like they rejected similar legislative proposals in 2007 – before the economic crisis that we are still working to emerge from.

      • American corporations speak louder because the American voter does not strike fear in the politician unless it is about some social issue that does not impact our pocketbooks.

        In IT, we have learned all this stuff about collaboration that we learned in corporate America and yet who are we trying to collaborate with to increase our political clout?

  13. Rob Betcher

    This is absolute craziness. There are record numbers of unemployment and we are going to give away the high paying jobs? We should be closing down the H1b Visas until we eliminate the unemployment.

    This would never pass in Canada where they protect their jobs and their country from this type of short sited thinking. To make matters worse, these Visa holders send every cent they make back to their country of origin. Who is behind this bill? And why did anyone vote for it?

    • The companies and the H1B providers lobbied for this perk that hurts American workers. The American people no longer matter in the USA or in legislation passed in Washington. The only things that matter are the NRA and corporations which want to do whatever they want without government interference or government oversight. It is a pity that more people in the USA are not of the America and Americans first mindset. This is only going to get worse with time as corporations and the NRA take over in Washington. I feel for the 20-something AMERICANS that are coming into this mess with dim prospects.

    • By closing H1B visa’s what can be achieved? These jobs are going to stay vacant and finally gets outsourced to India. Most of these jobs are software jobs where there are not enough US citizens to fill.

      These Visa holders are sending every cent back to country of origin because its taking decades to get permanent residency here. They are not in a situation make any long term comittments which forces them to do so.

      • Srini – Your self-interest perspective is obvious.

        1. The jobs will only stay vacant. There have always been American IT workers to fill those jobs. Corp America simply wants cheap labor. The laws need to be changed. First, eliminate the tax break for H1B and offshore workers.

        American workers were responsible for the MicroSofts, the Oracles, the PeopleSoft and a slew of other software companies.

        Do you really think that this skill-set went away and they were not teaching any of their children?

        It is about cheap labor – no more no less.

        2. If it is so bad for Visa holders then why are you continuing to do it? This even in a foreign country. Please do not expect sympathy from me.

        It is the legacy of my children that is being taken away.

        • I agree American workers are responsible for the Microsofts and also to the fact that H1B are cheap labor. But everyone also knows that if there are 100 high skilled jobs, only 20 US citizens/GC holders available and remaining 80 have to be dependent on H1B workers or from offshore. Just check how many students from STEM fields are graduating every year of which what percentage are US citizens and What percentage are non Immigrants.

          Its just current immigration rules for visa holders that’s bad and this CIR should be able to address it.

          • The 80 worker deficit number is suspect especially considering some of the reports we’ve seen even in the body of these comments.

            Playing devils advocate and accepting the number, however, illuminates another issue. Namely why more of these people aren’t graduating with the necessary skills.

            First, technical degrees are expensive no matter where you get them from.
            Second, their value is suspect especially with so many successful app developers not even attending college.

            Employers want ready made worker robots complete with the skill of the day at the ready and easy to toss away when the skill goes out of fashion. Forget about retraining unless you do it yourself on your own time.

            Problem is the lifespan of IT skills being relevant is very short, Often shorter than a degree program will allow. So you graduate with useless skills fortunate to land a tech support job for $10 an hour to pay off your 50K in student loans.

            The other problem is that IT roadmaps aren’t made by IT anymore they’re made by consumer trends and fads. That means your career in IT might as well be the same as working in retail with the declining pay rates to match no matter where you’re born.

          • I also don’t agree with this 20% number. When you see how many unemployed workers there are, many in the IT realm, plus many who are simply in part-time jobs to make money while they continue their job search, plus many companies asking for external employees that they don’t need because many companies have excellent in-house workers who can do the job, I think that number changes from a need of 80% down to a need of 20%. As soon as the currently unemployed/underemployed workers are back doing the jobs that they can do (the ones close to what these companies are seeking) then they should be able to look outside for additional resources in China, India, Russia, Israel and other places that have these tech workers.

          • “everyone knows”
            No everyone does not know.
            When I was working in IT contracting I met plenty of older IT guys that were well qualified for most of these H1b jobs. Guys that have CS degrees, and ample experience with all the various levels of IT. Of course they don’t get hired because teh HR are looking for people that can say they have administered server 2008 instead of Server 2003 which most of us cut our teeth on. Nevermind that from an administrative view point they are functionally identical and in many cases you will be making that Server 2008 functionally behave as a 2003 r2 server.
            It just makes me sick.
            If we continue to undermine our domestic IT (and other technical trades) there will be a serious drought of competent IT staff. It is already to that point in some ways because all the younger kids only want to learn trendy stuff like clouds and virtualization.

    • Shane Vivek

      Disagree with you Sir. MY gross sal was 61k and I got 47 k in hand. 5500 Income tax, 3300 medicare tax and 2000 Social security. So out of 4k per month, i spend for rent 800 , car insurance 120, medical insurance 200 , house insurance 25, phone 110, cable 40, grocery 500 .And remaining money we save, we pay it to the airline companies every year for visiting India. Plus car loan, gas etc. The employers abuse us as much as you feel they are abusing you/making you jobless.

    • In America, we call this propaganda, “Whistling in the dark.” No one has “secret news.” The last time the economic elites attempted to pass a smaller-scope bill in 2007, it was soundly defeated. The American economic landscape is much bleaker now. I agree with analyst Joe Guzzardi, who was interviewed by the Washington Post during the 10 April 2013 demonstration organized by SEIU at the U.S. Capitol. Mr. Guzzardi said that this bill (854 pages!) would collapse under its own weight.

  14. H-1b visas should be cut to zero. ZERO. Since this practice began, I have witnessed so many tragic stories and broken lives from AMERICAN highly qualified IT folks due to outsourcing. Our government should be looking out for us, but does not. If you would all bombard your representatives with requests to eliminate this travesty, maybe we can finally be heard.

    • Scott White

      Absolutely end the rhetoric! The H1-B scam results in a loss for everyone in the long run.
      1. H1-B’s are convinced to try for Perm Residents and fall into the same problems as citizens while companies like Verizon have all most all Indian IT groups. I saw this in IT consulting firms.
      2. Companies encourage offshore competition by not establishing long term employee relationships.
      3. H1-B’s are mistreated unless they gain leadership roles as perm residents or citizens in which case reverse prejudice occurs.
      4. The EU protects workers rights why won’t the US. They think they make more $$ but Germany is doing pretty good.
      5. Those SS checks should be going to the US citizens that are displaced based on qualifications rhetoric!
      6. As US citizens loose jobs to offshore we loose our tech edge to support keeping America the land of the free.
      I can go on and on… Drop H1-B to Zero!

  15. Infact this H1B bill will decrease exploitation of H1B visas. I am surprised, how people without any knowledge read this and comment anything. H1B workers pay all the taxes which any normal US Citizen would pay and they don’t even get it back when they go back to their home country.
    Now talking about the advantages of this bill, this would really help track down the employers who exploit H1B workers. There are so many consultants out there who hire H1B workers and pay them very less as compared to what they get from their client. There are so many consultants who file H1B visas even when they don’t have projects for their employees.
    Also many companies abroad just waste these H1B visas by reserving seats while there are so many potential candidates already in US in need of H1B.

    The point of increasing H1B visas is valid as there is huge demand for IT engineers in US but most of the companies cannot fill those positions just because they cannot find local employees or even US Citizens. Also according to one news website, in 2011 more than 30% of US economy was boosted because of entrepreneurs from abroad who started their business in the US. If these immigrants can start business in the US which will ultimately boost US economy, why there should be any problem?

    I would advice people to do some research first and then comment here as there are so many loop holes which needs to be understood first.

  16. D. Wendelboe

    I’m really glad I’m as old as I am. I am retiring this year. I started out in the respectable engineering profession (suit & tie) and watched the profession degrade to T-shirts, Nikes, and now foreign technical mercenaries. I will be glad to put this all behind us. Heaven help our children and grandchildren in earning a respectable living in this country.

  17. Endangered

    I am totally against this – there is no support for the US worker and the effects of this are not being brought to the attention of our elected representatives in Congress. CALL and EMAIL your congressman and senators.

  18. James Franch

    My wages have been driven down from over 120K to about 40K in the market place.
    Lately all I have been doing is training my H1B replacements. Then I am conveniently not needed.
    I hate being a teacher.
    This is nothing more than flooding the market with cheap labour for more profits in IT.
    I soon will not be able to afford to work. And am nearing retirement.
    There are not affordable classes in the schools. So no new people with paper.
    I learned on the job back in the day because it was new. I never had a computer class.
    The H1B’s I teach are no more knowledgable4 or bright than people here onshore. But those jobs are not offered onshore as a learning and growth mentoring opportunity. As they will not behave as slaves.
    I’ve mailed my representatives constantly. Without use.
    What we need is lobbying and an advocacy group.
    We are being driven out of an affordable wage for our skills by Corporate H1B slaves.
    Perhaps when I loose this job because they don’t want to pay my wage. I will start the advocacy group if there is still time.

  19. Are they freakin’ TRYING to destroy U.S. tech workers, the economy, and ultimately the United States of America or are they just fencepost stupid? I’ve HAD it with this crap. GEEZ.

  20. Once again the political players and the greedy US companies are trying to kill the American IT worker. In my almost 4 decades of IT applications and System Administration work I have run into maybe a dozen foreign workers who actually knew something or maybe I should say knew something that made them out of the ordinary, highly skilled, or unique enough to qualify to displace an American IT worker. I’m talking about the everyday applications programmers and the ordinary system administrators. I’m not talking engineers or scientist of some kind but ordinary IT staffers. I have been the minority in a group of minorities. Once on a contract for AMEX I was the only American in a group of almost 60 people! None of them had any special skills or talents and in fact in terms of creativity or self initiative they were woefully inadequate. Why are we still importing IT workers when we can’t put the people we have to work? Why are we still outsourcing jobs to incompetent foreign workers whose companies lie about their skills? I remember a case where one guy did like 40 phone screens for other people because they couldn’t speak English. Why do we continue to make allowances for substandard and subpar performers simply because they are foreigners or foreign born? I should not have to interpret or translate what you are trying to tell me on the phone or in an email into English! I am reminded of the conversation I had with one telemarketer style recruiter sitting in Bangalore, who talked about LA for 20 minutes before I figured out he was talking about Louisiana instead of Los Angeles!

  21. The H1B program is just a means for US tech companies to avoid the labor laws of the US. As one H1B individual pointed out he does not qualify for govenrment benifits while companies are free to trim the work force without notice or financial impact by simply withdrawing sponsership. It’s no wonder these companies want H1B employees , cheap to keep and get rid off! If thats not enough these companies act as a local US-universities training these H1B’s here and reaping the benefits when they go back home in a ready made workforce for outsourced projects. This is bad for the econmony and taxation as it goes to the outsouricng country, not even to mention the impact on local unemployment in the hi-tech engineering ranks.

  22. H1B visas are a farce. The companies are asking for fake requirements just so they can say that there people are not available so they can go the H1B visa route. There are plenty of us unemployed that can fill the void. US jobs for US citizens!!

  23. Dwight Collins

    what they should have done is legislate that for every foreign visa worker an American of a different ethnicity be hired to work/learn alongside them else face really stiff penalties.

  24. JJ Jetson

    As usual Congress looking out for the needs of lobby groups and ignoring the needs of American citizens. They will not stop until everyone is making $10/hr in this country.

  25. PleazYaHurtin'YourHEAD

    It is not like they come here with the skills. They want us to train ourselves out of a job and at the same time say how productive we are not. When, they were actively recruiting us to go to their countries to train and setup the foreign industries nothing was said. I have watched auto industry GIVE away market. How do you go from LEADER to 5th? You can call it 3rd if you want – you let the true fruit die on the vine here.

  26. Could someone tell me why companies use these so-called “recruiters”. There’s a million of them and they do nothing put pull resumes from Dice, Monster, etc., send them to a company, and get paid a lot.

    Many recruiters know nothing about the job and, often, ask me questions about the job details!

    I find this entire recruiting industry and absolute joke.


  27. I would like to know the unemployment rate of American engineers and scientist. I say this because I truly question this “shortage”.

    I have a master’s in laser physics and;
    have built the lasers that Intel, and others, use to make computer chips.

    • There is no shortage.

      They simply get roughly the same skills for much less, and with a golden noose around the employees necks if they kick up to much of a stink.

      There is also now a culture of foreigners that were hired and feel more comfortable hiring non-Americans to work for them for many reasons.

      Then their is ageism, many of these companies think that anyone over 40 is useless and they want the 20 to mid 30 crowd to populate their companies.

      The rules that require the companies to prove there are no available resources here before hiring foreign workers are a complete sham, they simply craft the job positions to exactly match the skills of who they want to hire to eliminate American competition.

  28. Clearly this Bill is another “Trojan Horse” They are employing more tech workers overseas (India) than in the United States. All this is going to do is eliminate jobs for US Citizens plain and simple.
    All of you fellow American Tech Workers should just consider yourself pushed out of the market. They can control the Indians or other H1B visa holders better than you they are not Americans. They come from a Caste system. There place is set for them at birth.

  29. RaysZ28

    This is so wrong on so many levels as we in the IT industry are the next targets of these Big Corporations and Financial Backers taking away our services and giving to lesser paid & experienced workers. Such a disgrace for Political Terrorists to allow more attacks from within by giving permission to these Liars and Financial Terrorists backers. When are we going to wake up as a country and impeach and get these poltical terrorists out of office once & for all? The voters who were so ignorant are to blame. CHI (Catholic Health Iniative) has already farmed out it’s IT to a company from India Wipro, and they have lost 80% of their skilled IT staff. then Wipro is blatantly discriminating against the older, more experienced workers and hiring people with little to No experience in It and CHI knows and apprves of this tactic. Communism at its best. Letting the Catholic Church attack from within by calling it a restructuring. LIES! Wake Up people & do something constructive and impeach and let your voices be heard Loud & clear. Vote out these radical right wing terrorists who are taking apart our nation. Or as one commentator on here suggests go work as a shoe sales person.

  30. I am familiar with this H1B program from last 12 years; I can say that it is there simply to cut down the salaries of American IT workers by exploiting H1B workers from other countries. On the other hand, H1B consulting firms are making millions of dollars by blackmailing H1B workers with the promise of sponsoring H1B Visa/Green cards. Companies who are sponsoring Green Cards will only pay 40% of the salary to these H1B workers throughout the period of H1B Visa/Green Card application (5-10 years).
    Legally H1B’s has to be on jobs all the time through their sponsoring employers (Often Consulting firms), so H1B’s are willing to work for even $15-$25 in some cases. Adding to the insult, most of the H1B spouses want to work legally or illegally to earn the second income, so their salary expectations are much lower to their H1B spouses. Overall, H1B’s have been taking American IT worker jobs for long period of time and the spouses of H1B workers have been taking IT and other sector jobs…..Well! you do the math to find out the Negative Impact that ONE H1B is having on American IT workers and to their families through the life cycle of H1B and Green Card program……..It is basically a set up from Employers from the beginning with the support of local lawmaker’s support.

    We should abolish H1B program all together.

    Let us all wake up and say NO to this Immigration Reform bill, by calling our local Congress person.

    God Bless Your Job!

    • Yep, that’s pretty much it.

      Being a slave to a big american company is still about 1000% better than they can get in their dirtbag countries.

      Our politicians get paid in kickbacks, the companies get a young, locked in, underpaid labor force, and we the people get our jobs taken away and the privilege of paying for it with our tax dollars.

      The unions have already sold their employee’s out, the left is totally pro-outsource and job-import, and the RINO’s just want to go to the cocktail parties.

      They and the lo-fo voters are turning us into a 3rd world nation

      • American IT workers are losing out because they are unwilling to upgrade their skills, unwilling to work long hours, and some are damn lazy. Also, some have “attitude problem”, they will not work on “support” projects – let the “dirty” work be done offshore !

        • “American IT workers are losing out because they are unwilling to upgrade their skills, unwilling to work long hours, and some are damn lazy. Also, some have “attitude problem”, they will not work on “support” projects – let the “dirty” work be done offshore !”

          Really now?
          You know, there’s a reason people immigrate here from third world countries. Not because they want to be lazy or not work hard but rather because they want to feel like all that hard work and long hours actually MEAN something. If you want to be treated like a slave and exist just to make someone else rich then please don’t come here and keep your opinions to yourself.


  31. I was recently laid off and replaced by a H1B or L visa.

    I have over 15 years IT experience and over 10 years in senior testing experience.
    This person could even follow a test script.

    Where is the oversight on these visas?

    I’ve worked with other visa holders who could barely speak English and didn’t know how to order dates in calendar order, and they were meant to be an expert in report writing.

    I want to know where this visa holder above is getting a 6 figure job. That rate is rarely available as a contractor and we get no benefits.

    They should be reducing the number of visas not increasing them.

  32. Uncle Sam

    The amount that they raise the H1B by is the double the amount of competent technical US citizens that will be laid off because of it… between this and the outsourcing is it any wonder why nobody in their right mind would go into a math/scientific/engineering career. Vote for tax incentives to hire US citizens… Let them bring all the H1Bs into the country they want as long as they get taxed to the hilt for it. What is more patriotic than supporting policies that put US citizens back to work, this policy is definitely not one of them.

    • They really need to force a 125% prevailing wage rule, if you want to hire X and the median of X is Y then Y * 1.25 = new employees salary.

      I mean if you are so hard up to hire someone that you can’t find a native this is a bargain.

      Furthermore if you do hire someone and we can prove that an American applied for the job that was qualified then you pay a 1 million dollar fine, 1/2 paid to the American in question.

      Get a board together of American IT workers to sit on a board to decide the above, because right now the companies simply taylor the job description to match the hiree almost exactly.

      If what the companies are saying is true then it’s not and issue, if on the other hand it’s a game to get cheap labor while harboring their companies within the protection of the US system then they deserve to be heavily punished.

  33. Florence M Lee

    Having been PM & PMO working as principal consultant in pharmaceutical & financial industry, I had witnessed extensive trainings required for offshore cdeductedts to produce same quality of work based on daily encounters of effective & efficiencies living in US vs India.
    Having additional coaching required at least 4-6 months to establish the baselines for each offshore worker & redo assignments raised mgmt costs & additional training resources that would be more beneficial for experienced US workers in the long run. For example, US workers tend to think outside the box to enhance basic app requirements to accommodate human interface for exceptions. India workers without any inclination to examine any pitfalls in the specifications for better methodologies to enhance customer interfaces unless specified explicitly. The opportunity costs are very extensive to forklife application & recode app interfaces for enhancements.
    In addition, many HRs are heavily staffed with offshore personnel giving preferences to offshore applicants w/double blinded consultant agencies fees so that ss are not deducted from earnings yet family is paid by local agency in India w/o any ss or tax deductions. Most US EM hospitals will not refuse medical emergency cares to patients regardless of citizenship or lack of health insurance coverages. But the patients cannot be traced for payments in many instances either name/address/phone # are unknown or incorrect. Offshore workers often are recent graduates w/young wife 8 months pregnant travelled w/her family & ready to give birth in US. After child is borned & raised in US til 18 yrs old the parents will be qualified as US citizens. Free public education & health services are funded for entire family. Not bad w/o paying SS & income tax.

  34. Hi – All theses comments are very valid, BUT I would like to point out that the debate should also be about EDUCATION !
    1) US Universities do not educate enough Scientists and Engineers to supply the needs of the IT industries.and others Why ?.Should the State/US Gov provide more financial help for American students to graduate in theses fields , instead of “importing” foreign educated labor ? Why does the H1-B visas fees not used to fund “Education Grants” ?
    2) When employed , middle age IT workers face huge challenges to keep pace with the frenetic evolution of the technologies…Again, why US companies are not obligated to provide for the CONTINUATION EDUCATION of their labor force? Others developed countries have programs for that, so workers are not “dumped” after they turn 40+…

    Any comments ? Thank You.

    • I am sorry but the issue is not a lack of qualified people

      Mostly foreign workers are brought in because they are cheaper, younger, and more easily manipulated, period.

      The way it is supposed to work is that you can only hire a foreigner if you cannot find the skills in a native.

      The way it actually works is that job positions are posted that make it highly likely that the people you already want to hire match much more closely than the natives.

      It’s an open secret within companies that do a lot of H1B’s, if you want Yee than you post a job that only Yee can fill in case you get audited.

      As far as training I have heard this as well, but it’s quite ridiculous. Do you really think a guy that is a wizard at SQL is going to have trouble moving to MongoDB etc?

      The H1B’s typically also have to be trained on whatever tech the company has, and quite a bit more than a seasoned native who probably has gone through multiple tech transitions in their careers and are quite used to it.

      The bottom line is that you shouldn’t buy into the VS’s, big company’s and politicians lies, because they all know how the system really works.

    • 1. Most of US schools do not prepare children to college education in STEM. Particularly, schools teach rules, but do not teach thinking and understanding.

      2. Most of college students put first degrees and GPA instead of education proper. For the reason, they avoid hard core courses that would help them through the whole career.

      • It is true that some schools do not prepare students adequately. I had the opportunity to study at both public and private schools when I was growing up (family moved a lot).
        I think I got a pretty good education from both types of schools. The main difference between public and private was the private schools did have more of a college prep agenda. The parents of private school students are of course going to motivate their children to learn if they are spending a lot!
        Either way, it is a cop out to say our schools aren’t good enough. Anyone working in STEM has to be a disciplined determined individual. These are fields that you don’t just fall into. Just to achieve competency in many STEM positions you must draw on a wide range of knowledge and experience. Personally I’d rather hire a proven tech in his 30’s or 40’s that knows the basics of scripting, networking and hardware. Then hire a young guy withmore energy, but less know how.
        Nothing worse than a dumbass working fast!

  35. Please,

    can someone explain why do we need to hire from “outside” of USA instead of training and/or providing incentives to train the USA citizens?
    Is this really better for us as the country to lay off citizens and replace them with lowered paid “outsiders”?

    Should the “gang of eight” be re-elected?



    • It’s better for the VC’s who have a predisposition towards young, cheap, locked in labor

      It’s better for the big companies that need a cheap workforce that can be manipulated

      It’s better for companies that because of the above are now populated with foreign influences that feel more comfortable hiring non-Americans

      It’s better for politicians that are corrupt and get kick backs for selling their own citizens down the river for a few tenths of a cent on the dollar.

      The bonus here is that all of us are paying for the dis-assembly of the US workforce with out tax dollars and this “Gang” (aptly named) are laughing all the way to the bank.

    • Companies, generally, are not in a training business. They cannot afford to wait several months, if not years until the training will be completed. Even more that the freshly trained employee likely would leave a job on a heartbeat if a competitor offer him a 15% higher salary. Which is absolutely reasonable, because companies also are not a bit loyal to their employees.

      Big companies sometimes provide a light training, typically 1-3 days long courses. Smaller companies cannot afford even the small luxury.

      We need, however, to organize somehow retraining and/or continuous education not through employers. May be at colleges.

  36. Miss Vinay Duggal

    This bill should NOT be passed…it does nothing to help the rights of Americans.

    (I also think that practically everyone who came to America after 1973 should be deported. The nation would have alot more economic and physical eg living space than we do presently. ..and crime rates would be lower.)

  37. Florence M Lee

    Having been PM & PMO working as principal consultant in pharmaceutical & financial industry, I had witnessed extensive trainings required for offshore cdeductedts to produce same quality of work based on daily encounters of effective & efficiencies living in US vs India.
    Having additional coaching required at least 4-6 months to establish the baselines for each offshore worker & redo assignments raised mgmt costs & additional training resources that would be more beneficial for experienced US workers in the long run. For example, US workers tend to think outside the box to enhance basic app requirements to accommodate human interface for exceptions. India workers without any inclination to examine any pitfalls in the specifications for better methodologies to enhance customer interfaces unless specified explicitly. The opportunity costs are very extensive to forklife application & recode app interfaces for enhancements.
    In addition, many HRs are heavily staffed with offshore personnel giving preferences to offshore applicants w/double blinded consultant agencies fees so that ss are not deducted from earnings yet family is paid by local agency in India w/o any ss or tax deductions. Most US EM hospitals will not refuse medical emergency cares to patients regardless of citizenship or lack of health insurance coverages. But the patients cannot be traced for payments in many instances either name/address/phone # are unknown or incorrect. Offshore workers often are recent graduates w/young wife 8 months pregnant travelled w/her family & ready to give birth in US. After child is borned & raised in US til 18 yrs old the parents will be qualified as US citizens. Free public education & health services are funded for entire family. Not bad w/o paying SS & income tax.
    Another trick Indian consultant agencies performed to expedite offshore employment is to reused ex-consultant I’D batches for new onboarders(no reissued new ID)& reassigned the same company computer equipment so that the same head counts are recorded even the payroll showed same name as ex-consultants.
    It was hard to keep track of headcount since the paycheck is issued to first consultant agency then passed through to second consultant agency in India then they pay family designated in India in cash.

  38. IamJustANumber

    It is a useless Congress at its best and one more time money talks. Our votes have been useless for decades and America needs to rename popular elections to corporate elections. The real number of unemployed in the USA is between [17% – 20%]. In fact, Wipro, Tata, Infosys, HCL, IBM, Accenture, Wall Mart and thousand of retailers and companies will get their wishes. A huge number of American people have been unemployed for over 2 years and H1B, L visas holders have been going to work each morning. The trick now is that several companies calls Americans to the interview process, but these companies have already decided that they are going to hire an H1 or L visa holders. They do it just to cover their behinds from the labor department. Sadly, an unemployed person needs to pay for gas and tolls to drive for the interview, isn’t it? Who cares, it is all about profit. How about training and coaching people because these Indian body shops have been delivering “noodle code” to these companies. It looks that they like “noodle code” because Wall street doesn’t look at your code instead they looked at the revenue.

    • Correct though it’s a bit more complex

      Technically they have to show that a native is not available with the same skill set.

      They worst offenders review resumes, then create a generic job description that displaces the american candidates that would accept the job, knowing that a native with the skills listed (if they existed) would never apply for it at the compensation being offered. It’s called targeting and they do it all the time.

      They may or may not interview natives dependent on the likelihood of an audit

      There is also the culture, age, academic filter that is not actually a conspiracy but might as well be.

      Young managers won’t hire older workers because of authority issues the younger people have with older people, IVY leagues tend to club up, general academics work the same way such as if you have a PHD then of course a cheap PHD looks a lot better than a native with a measly BS and lots of experience, if your don’t speak great English it’s much better to hire someone that you feel more aligned with than a native.

      They game the system, the politicians get kick backs, the companies get cheap labor and many times the Americans they are displacing are even forced to train them up to our standards and are then let go themselves.

  39. Money talks. Donate $$ to the opponents of the sponsors of the bill listed below when they run for re-election.

    Durbin and Graham are up for re-election in 2014. McCain, Schumer, Rubio, Graham are up in 2016. Unfortunately, Menendez and Flake are Class I senators. They won’t be up for re-election anytime soon.

    ” Mr. SCHUMER (for himself, Mr. MCCAIN, Mr. DURBIN, Mr. GRAHAM, Mr.
    MENENDEZ, Mr. RUBIO, Mr. BENNET, and Mr. FLAKE) introduced the
    following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee ..”

    • Absolute Rubbish

      If a native has the same experience as a foreigner and the foreigner is cheaper and can be locked into his job that is an actual benefit for the entity that hires them.

      If you create a system that makes that easy then of course Americans are going to be displaced because businesses exist to make a profit, not provide jobs for Americans.

      If these companies want to exist here then they should be held to a higher standard than “The most profitable”

      If they can’t find qualified workers they really are not trying, having worked for a very large software company I can say with absolute authority that gaming the system to get smart, cheap, easily manipulated labor is the norm, anyone who says otherwise is either naive or complicit.

      If the H1B’s were made universal (no limit) and could not be audited you would see a 90% foreign worker rate within 2 years.


  40. Well…another Susan Hall’s H1B related story. It has become so common for some of the users here to post comments as if the world is ending. Why so much hatred without knowing all the facts?

    When was the last time author posted anything supporting H1B? might have forgotten already that it grew by charging millions of dollars from so called consulting companies.

    • Our country exists for US citizens first and foremost, the only time we should import labor is when their is a real shortage, not these bogus and completely made up shortages.

      The reason that makes people angry is because many of them helped to grow the companies that are now displacing them for cheaper labor while maintain the benefit of US status (protection, opportunity, etc)

      They are not under qualified or under achieving, they are simply too costly and have the rights of a US citizen, from a balance sheet perspective of course foreigners are a better deal for these mega-corp’s.

      That doesn’t mean people are going to roll over and say “Ah well, I guess I just need to go off and die to allow IBM etc. to make a few more cents on the dollar at my expense”

  41. “Companies would be required to advertise H-1B positions on a Labor Department website for 30 days before filling the position with an H-1B applicant”

    I checked Labor Department website. Its hard to find these H1-B postings. Does anyone have a direct link to these job postings.

    One thing given, most of the the H1-B workers are usually young guys with no family. They are willing to stay late and even work on weekends. Employers love such kind of employees who don’t complain — no matter how much work you throw at them. It helps them to cut costs. If you are in 40s-50s with family you will lose to them hands-down as you have family obligations also. Companies see older employees as liability even though they claim no discrimination.

    Good Luck!

    • True, and there is an unspoken threat as well because if they lose their jobs they go back to where they came from

      Cheaper, easier to manipulate, and easy to get rid of if they don’t work out. There is also a lot of “culture” prejudice, the Indian manager would rather higher other Indians that understand their place, are easier to communicate with etc.

      The politicians are selling us all down the river, of course eventually they will suffer the same fate but by then we will have transformed into a 3rd world country and they will be sipping cocktails on the beach.

  42. LadyMyLan


    We IT professionals with higher degree and 30 years of experiences are being pushed out by corporations via work force reduction and meanwhile they need more H1B?????

    What can we do you guys?

    • As much as I hate the current state of unions, our best option would probably be to unionize all IT workers. This would give us collective clout that we don’t currently have. If we all “go on strike” the and stop buying their products, the companies would come to a screeching halt and reconsider their options. There is no guarantee that this would work, but we’d suddenly get other unions on our side and they would likewise stop buying those products until the companies changed their hiring policies. (If only union leaders weren’t so corrupt! dang!)

  43. another ____sandwich.

    Gotta love that we have 8.5% unemployment and our elected officials are working on ways to bring in workers form other countries. If there aren’t enough educated workers stateside, do something BESIDES bringing in “guest” workers.

    • When you look at the drop out rate it’s more like 16%, many of them displaced and unable to get re-hired because of these kinds of programs.

      If you are offered a PHD student at 1/4 the cost of the equivalent native, and can lock them into working for you then from a business perspective of course it’s a great deal.

      Not so much for the citizens that actually grew, defended and in many cases sacraficed for the country.

      This also results in “Skills Inflation” why settle for what you need from a native when you can get 2x the skill set for 1/2 the price, even though that’s often nothing more than fantasy it seems to work on dim bulb HR types.

  44. If this bill passes, wages will likely go down for most tech workers due to the law of supply and demand.

    I have been looking for a new job after finishing a four year contract. I am seeing current wages about 20% lower than what I was making back in 2007 for the same kind of work…

    The big US corporations have a lot of influence in congress, and they want a global workforce with cheapest wages, highest profit, but also the protection and influence of the US Government and US military. Too much offshoring and importing of foreign labor has led to the current high unemployment, record people on disability (to have an income) and food stamps, etc.

    This bill (if it becomes law) could throw quite a few more workers (IT and non-IT) into poverty, bog down our health care system with millions of former illegal aliens, etc.

  45. Another point – Saying that a recruiter will need to post a job for 30 days before filling it with an H-1 means nothing. I see positions posted by comapnies likes CGI for jobs that I have held in the past, same company same postion yet they never even respond to my application. Since I have all the needed skills and great references the only conclusion I can reach is that they really have no interest in filling the jobs with Americans. I not saying these insurance companies owe me a job but if they want to screw the American worker then they should move the entire company offshore and not benefit from this countries infastructure which our taxes and hard work built,
    Let all the managers , Ceo’s and human resource people live in some third world pit.

  46. Anonymous


    I don’t think this reform is good enough. I am actually an H1-B worker and not from India (Thank God) although it can suck sometimes as I would have been able to benefit from being Indian since they run this field in a ghetto fashion.
    They already shipped Millions of their people to this country. I think in a way the US citizens are suffering, the non-Indians are suffering as well and this situation has taken a toll on diversity. I did both my undergrad and Graduate degree in the US. My education was fully sponsored by my family. It is still tough for me to get a job. Technically here is the situation I am in:
    1) can’t get security clearance
    2) can’t work for any government or government related agency
    3) Indian consultancies favor Indian candidates. I heard that 1$ in india would cover the food and transportation expenses for the day. So Indian workers are a lot more likely to accept a low salary 50K for the skills and below
    4) I refuse to add ghost companies on my Resume. I have ran into many situations where Indian consultancies would actually go a head and modify my resume in the hope of setting me up on an interview.

    Finally, I would like to mention that this country was built by a mix of people ( Africans, Europeans (from many countries), American Indians, etc.. ) It is a little bit of a shame to favor one country (INDIA ) in the H1B VISA applications as the statistics would show that 90% of applicants are from this specific country.
    End of result, the consequences are painful since many (and not all ) managers from India are not open to diversity as the rest of the people in this country whether it is the other minorities or the actual citizens.

  47. I agree with most of the comments posted here….this is the time we all should speak up and not fully depend on our fingers to do the job. Let us all call our local congress person and tell him or her that s/he will be ousted in the next elections, if they vote for this bill. Please do communicate to your friends, family and neighbors and encourage them to call the congress person as well….SAVE THE AMERICAN JOB for Americans.

    This is the first time in my career that I felt my job is in jeopardy. I believe that our future and our kids future will be in jeopardy as well…..Very sad to see this…..SHAME ON US for allowing this to happen to us and to our kids.

    THIS H1B BILL (Immigration reform) will be a SUICIDE FOR US!

    Please act Now!

  48. john werneken

    How is it a problem, getting quality work for less? If the workers involved choose not to take on the issue, why in the world should the government or the public get involved?

    • “How is it a problem, getting quality work for less? If the workers involved choose not to take on the issue, why in the world should the government or the public get involved?”

      becuase it is a legal loophole for companies that reside in this country to import outsourced labor.
      As long as unemployment is so high, it is a crime that they can do so, and write off the expenses of doing so!

  49. Joe Balunda

    I am amazed there hasn’t been widespread violence over this H1B legislation.
    I, for one, am aware that my quality of life has suffered significantly because of the H1B sitation and hugely negative impact on consulting rates over the past 10 years.

    I guess IT workers are just “sheeple” and totally manipulated by the lawyers in Congress.

    • Joe Balunda

      That doesn’t work. One session does all of the damage, and then they get tossed out AFTER THE DAMAGE HAS BEEN DONE. There is no accountability in the end.
      This is not a fair “system”.

  50. Companies that hire these people should be held accountable for all law infractions and the total cost of the individual and schooling etc of all their family members that come to the US. They should be able to be sued for any infractions by these employees until at least 10 years after the termination of their employment.

    The companies need to also be required to pay a $100,000 fee per individual that is brought in that goes to educational fund for Americans to use to get education that helps them get such positions. This amount would not be consider a business expense or tax deductible. No one related to the company in any way would be eligible to receive these funds.

    The fact is these companies have exported jobs and still are not satisfied, so they want to import more cheep labor. Maybe these companies should have to pay half the amount spent on these individuals including wages, benefits etc… as an unemployment compensation to US Tech people that are unemployed as long as the individual is in the country.

  51. I wrote to 8 senators and 2 local congressmen asking them NOT TO pass this stupid bill that will hurt American skilled workers and their families…..Let us not make this country a third world country by DUMPING all these CHEAP workers who don’t even dam care about how American worker contributed building the American economy……On the other hand, Companies (Big/Small) like these cheap labor so that they can simply fire Americans who helped building their very same company……in other wards,…unfairly dumping.

    *** Please write to your Senator and Congressman asking them not to pass this bill and save your job! ***

  52. Who the Hell are the Information Technology Industry Council?? They are a lobbyist group in favor of undercutting Americans with STEM skills and experience with unqualified imported cretans for $1.99.

    This conspiracy is an overt act that adversely affects the American way of life, our livelihood and economy which is treasonous. Those guilty parties need to repent and remediate their ways or be punished to the full extent under the Constitution of the United States.

  53. The thing that seems most obvious about this bill to me is that the total number of new workers allowed into the country each year (most of which end up staying for quite a few years) is much greater than the total number of new jobs that are created each year.

  54. Just saw a stat about wages in 1974…average was 12,900 and housing was $32,500…not sure if I can trust that but why not?
    Made me realize that based on my salary in the mid 80s, and the rate of inflation, It should be making about $200K/year now…no wonder I can’t afford anything…any why oh why has the salary level in my industry gone down since I am so much more productive now than I was back then? It can’t be competition since there’s apparently a skill shortage.

  55. Couldn’t resist sharing my thoughts.

    Having been through the US work visa grind (3 years on L1 and 4 years on H1b) – I’ve come full circle in my understanding of the problem. I work in IT, specifically ERP – you could call my area of specialization a high value skill(my last charge out was 250 an hour working for Deloitte as a Manager). I am now free lancing for half that amount. I’ve spent 13 years now with SAP and play the role of solution architect and can easily find a role to play on most SAP projects.

    I’ve done well for myself but attribute most of my success to being at the right place and the right time and I hold that to be true for most of my colleagues as well.

    My suggestion would be to immediately disband the H1b program and institute a skilled worker program like the UK or Canada. While no program is perfect, these alternatives are way more versatile to real market needs and to stay aligned with changing demand.

    Generic skills such as IT management, project management should never need foreign workers since there are plenty around. There should be a very specific IT skill list that is revised annually against which immigration applications are received. The visas should not be linked to employers although they must continue to sponsor them.

    Furthermore, the US must phase out the archaic green card limits by countries stipulation which only helps play into the hands of exploitative employers.

    BTW – I managed to leave the US and immigrate to Canada on their skilled worker program and am quite happy as I find myself on equal footing with locals.

  56. “Requiring “H-1B dependent employers” — those who employ a disproportionate number of guest workers — to pay significantly higher wages and fees than normal users of the program. At present, the dependent-employer threshold stands at 15 percent of total headcount. This was one of the requirements that Facebook took aim against in its lobbying.”

    Why does a company that does not have a geographic-centric business require any H1-B visas to begin with? It’s one thing to oppose this if you were designing and building a new building, dam, car, etc., it’s another when the work can be done from home. I know Yahoo had some problems with people who worked from home, but the people isn’t limited to people who work from home:

    That’s right, someone has actually gone into an office to give the illusion he was working while he paid to outsource his own job.

    That said, the limit of H1-B visas is the only thing keeping salaries in STEM positions strong. You start letting in more foreign nationals, it will stall the job market. Salaries will plummet, and it will lead to greater depression than with the “unforeseeable” crash in the housing and financial markets. Mainly because fewer people will see any reason to go into a STEM career, and that will setback advancements for a generation or two.

  57. Fellow Americans! This bill is heavily lobbied by special interest groups and companies who like to employ cheap skilled labor by ignoring American tech workers.

    Are you confident that your job will be secure after passing this Immigration reform bill (with increase of H1B VISA’s) ? — Think again. I can bet my life on it that all of our jobs will be effected (lost or reduction in your pay check).

    Today, Neeraj Gupta, Ron Hira and Mark Krikorian on Immigration Policy hearing on Capital hill EXATLY outlined the H1B Visa ABUSE by the Outsourcing firms like Accenture, IBM, Infosys, Wipro, TCS, and Cognizant e.t.c.

    Tech Companies in Silicon valley need PHD’s not H1Bs. They want to avoid the American Tech worker by importing lot of H1B workers from other countries for less salary…This is literally cheating the America and ABUSING the H1B program for CHEAP labor….Very shame full that our elected Politicians are selling Americans for their political gains…Very Shameful.

    Please write to your Congress person ASAP.

  58. We don’t need to increase H-1 visas to get good workers. We will get good workers if we stop granting the visas. The problem is that no one wants to invest their time and energy to get a degree that will be dicounted in quick order by hiring of foreign workers. If you could depend on a career that would earn good money people would flock to colleges in droves to get those degrees but when you know a company will just go out and hire someone from another country for starting wages why bother?

  59. Debashis

    The bill is only trying to solve but temporarily the supply side of talent required. It is not providing the long term strategy of solving the demand side of talent in major market’s. The solution may lie in affordable education system and creating a social fabric where families are encouraged to make their children employable with right skills for future and not force them to be independent financially at an very young age for short term sustainance,

  60. Yogendra Joshi

    Phew! 1000’s of comments on this page. I don’t understand why just target India? There are people across the globe trying to land a job in the US and the reason! CASH. They work hard, they learn technologies, a lot of people here on this page have mentioned that foreign workers have hard time communicating…BOO!! It isnt true. I have worked in many parts of US and have never had any issues communicating either in 6.writing emails or talking over the conference or over the phone! It all depends on case by case basis. So we arent suppose to make it a generic statement saying foreign workers cant communicate.

    Other thing about H1B workers is, they are flexible in all kinds of work. You ask the person to come at 6.00 AM and leave at 11.00 PM he’d happily do it because its all about the CASH, about their families back in their country, about their future. I doubt if any US citizen would do that in the corporate world to stretch at workplace without being paid extra. I have seen US citizens asking for overpay when extra hours have to be put in which isn’t the case with expatraits.

    Hourly rates for an H1B worker goes to about 26 to 30$ / hr which is way tooooo less then the native but still the kind of work he / she does is almost equal to the one that would be provided by 60$ / hr native. How does it matter? With a little training, things would become fine and the expatrait would become expert in areas where he / she wasnt!

    I do understand each American expects a JOB, a highly PAID JOB(6 figures) to be more precise but we gotta be flexible too right?

    • Wow! This one is just riddled with problems. If I didn’t know better (actually, I don’t) I’d think this was a set up to prove all of the points mentioned.

      1) Why target just India? The same reason hackers target Microsoft. When maybe 60% of the foreign IT workers are brought in from India to displace American workers who can do the same job (with maybe 30% China and 10% everything else), it’s easy to pick on that locale.

      2) “a lot of people here on this page have mentioned that foreign workers have hard time communicating…BOO!! It isnt true. I have worked in many parts of US and have never had any issues communicating either in 6.writing emails or talking over the conference or over the phone! It all depends on case by case basis. So we arent suppose to make it a generic statement saying foreign workers cant communicate.”
      Wow! Where do I start? This is barely American. Granted, sometimes when you write in these forums, you take shortcuts and leave out “a” and “the” and apostrophes, but here’s the correct way to write American:
      “a lot of people here on this page have mentioned that foreign workers have [a] hard time communicating…BOO!! It isn[‘]t true. I have worked in many parts of [the] US and have never had any issues communicating either in 6.[??]writing[,] emails or talking over the[?] conference or over the phone! It[‘s] all depends[?] on [a] case by case basis. So we aren[‘]t suppose to make it[?] a generic statement saying foreign workers can[‘]t communicate.” Wow even that is bad…could have been something like this: “a lot of people here on the forum have mentioned that foreign workers have a hard time communicating. Really? It isn’t true. I’ve worked in many parts of the US and have never had any issues communicating in either my writing, my e-mails, or by talking in conferences or over the phone. It’s all on a case-by-case basis. So we shouldn’t make blanket statements about how well foreign workers communicate.

      3) Bragging about how H1B break labor laws by working unpaid overtime is not really a good thing.
      4) And claiming that they work for less proves the point that companies are exploiting the system rather than using it to get people locally at competitive wages.

  61. Seeing things

    I noticed that, according to the US Census, in 2000 about 9% of the working population were foreign born and in 2010 that number went up to 16%. Comparing that with the ‘real’ unemployment rates and I see a BIG problem. We should NOT be increasing H1b access until there is better balance and our unemployment rates have significantly decreased.